That bottom pic is me at this thread

https://t.co/gcoAoy3vYD

Check out what The President said only last week!!

main shocking revelation is at 2.00 onwards

:shocked:

I do agree but trying to inspire lone wolf attacks in the West is a big part of the ISIS strategy and something they explicitly encourage so just by carrying out this shooting he is sort of following instructions from ISIS commanders even if there's no direct contact

Exactly

Yes so far, it is that

It certainly lowered the rate of gun crime, we've only had one major shooting incident since so the law is working in hte way it was intended, the laws were introduced to stop another Dunblane from happening and it's mostly worked so far.

If you understood the stats you were throwing about you'd know that the Gun Control laws would never have had much of an effect on murder rates because most murders in the UK aren't committed with a gun. The number of guns per capita in the UK is very low. Like I said before, the gun laws were introduced to stop gun massacres from happening and it's worked mostly.

I'd have thought that, as an American, you would be more tired of these endless killing sprees than anyone else on here. It's kind of sad that you seem to value your guns more than the lives of your countrymen.

PREACH.

Death doll has risen to 59 :(

This will be my last post on this thread.

I don't expect any of you to understand why this has bothered me so much, but oh well. Tibbs never really been the most thoughtful of places.

I understand that some of you are passionate about the gun laws in America and I don't think anyone is denying the fact that more needs to be done to prevent things like this happening. Like not allowing a person who has been known for 'terrorist activity' and 'domestic abuse' to purchase multiple guns from a firearms store. Its unbelieveable.

But to go on and on about gun regulation, arguing with a known troll(s) for pages and pages, the general condescending language of tibb, it just made me so angry. I feel like people on here cared more about arguing and causing trouble than they did about showing respect for the victims of what happened in Florida.

It does look like it was inspired by ISIS if not a direct plan. Across the world there are any number of mentally unstable people that will latch on to that as justification for committing atrocities on whomever they wish. The problem that America has is that with guns so readily available, the amount of damage they can do is potentially much greater. Yes, people can get hold of guns/bombs anywhere, but it requires thought, planning and effort to accomplish. In America, they have the means at their disposal with no preparation required.

Owen speaks volumes here, it's clear that this is homophobic motivated attack

The AR-15 semi-automatic rifle

One of the two guns used by Omar Mateen

3.3 million

AR-15s in the US in 2012 (estimated)

45 rounds per minute

26 people killed by AR-15 in Sandy Hook in 2012

0 days' wait needed to obtain one in Florida

Source: Slate; AR-15.com; Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence


https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2...trip=all&w=940

“This is an instrument of war designed for the battlefield that is marketed and sold to the general public,” said Mark Barden, father of of one of the victims.


Read about this vile thing here: http://qz.com/704939/the-ar-15-is-th...than-a-pistol/

Jesus wept

No wonder he left :rolleyes:

That SKy guy was hell bent on trying to say that it was just a coincidence that he "stumbled into" a 100% LBGT club and wiped out 59 people


what kind of logic?

He speaks perfect sense.. do it Obama while you still can!!

Well done to Owen for getting out of the vipers nest, the guy did target one subsection of society there's nothing wrong or disrespectful about admitting that.. nor was he suggesting he felt any better or worse than anyone else about it.
Heck even the telegraph headline in discussion read gays in the west targeted :/

Regardless of what people think about gun laws, NO ONE should be able to get their hands on this at a gun store. Why does a person need this?!

Yes and he took time to Reload
thats when you get him

This is a big part of the problem, and the major flaw in the "criminals would just get guns anyway" argument.

Yes... Criminals would still be able to get their hands on guns through the black market. However getting a gun like THIS on the black market would cost a small fortune if they weren't being sold to civilians... the guns criminals can easily get hold of through illicit means are generally manually loaded revolvers, perhaps semi-auto handguns, shotguns and smaller caliber rifles. MAYBE something like an UZI or an AK but that would be far, far less common.

The big difference is that with a 6-shot revolver you're going to kill at most 6 people, and more likely one or two people and injure a couple of others, before you have to reload and someone takes you down. With an assault rifle the attack is relentless, more rounds in the clip, fast reload, and it's firing high-impact rounds that are far more likely to kill. These weapons are what make mass shootings possible.

Same goes for murder stats. Yes they can be as high in countries with gun control; if someone decides they want to kill one person, it's relatively easy to kill that person, with any weapon. A knife, a lead pipe, your bare hands... just as easy as using a gun, in some cases easier.

The reason gun controls have little effect on murder stats? Simple - the vast majority of murders are single murders, one individual killing one other individual.

The reason they have even less effect on violent crime stats? Because most reported violent crimes don't involve a weapon of any kind, let alone a gun.

Walk into a crowded room and try to kill people en masse with a knife? Most likely scenario is that you'll kill the first one who is caught unawares and then lightly injure a couple of others in the struggle that follows. No one walks into a room with a knife and casually murders 50+ people. It's just not possible.

So the only relevant statistic to look at when it comes to gun control, is murders that involve multiple deaths. Gun control absolutely does have a drastic effect on those stats.

Oh and just to add... no one needs more than a small caliber handgun for personal protection, or a non-auto rifles / shotguns for hunting. There is literally no compelling argument for selling assault rifles and other military grade weapons to the general public without some SERIOUS paperwork being involved.

The Daily Mail today decide to troll their readers than feature Orlando..


http://img.kiosko.net/2016/06/13/uk/daily_mail.750.jpg

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...ian-among-dead

some victims have been named

one of the young lads only came out as gay at New Year :bawling:

Yeah it's BS in my opinion - from what I've read, I think this all has far more to do with the guy specifically targetting homosexuality than it does ISIS or anything else, which he's used as a justification or excuse, probably even to himself. I suspect he specifically hated and wanted to kill gay people, full stop.

There's an article where someone talks about him "becoming enraged" at the sight of two men kissing. Total conjecture and guesswork here but... a fairly realistic scenario is that it's because he found himself unwillingly aroused by it and that conflicted with his personal or religious beliefs, making him angry, and directing that anger at any gay person, probably building up over years. It's a sort of "classic" homophobe scenario taken to a horrifying extreme.

Yes but Do Not Walk Off
a SkyNews Paper Review set
that looked silly
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...5815219496.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...5816042776.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...5816036230.jpg

Whilst I know its not a competition etc

A car bomb could wipe out 80 tomoz in Iraq and we would not give 2 hoots or make a thread.

Just worth noting in terms of the hierarchy of death

Whilst I know its not a competition etc

A car bomb could wipe out 80 tomoz in Iraq and we would not give 2 hoots or make a thread.

Just worth noting in terms of the hierarchy of death

Agreed, said as much myself in a previous post. It does seem to be downplaying it to say it was ISIL orchestrated and not just as you say a sympathser with one very specific loathing.
Maybe some Americans find that distasteful as they feel the same?....

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...32_964x387.jpg
Good Job the Swat Tank truck
made a hole in the wall of the bogs
letting loads escape.

It's a heirarchy of hatred; there are a lot of bigoted people who hate homosexuality, but currently hate Islam even more... so if it was an ISIS attacks they can be angry about the deaths of their own "American gays". If it was a bible-thumping redneck a lot of people would sadly have less of an issue with it.

what was happening in the 3 hours since he called the police?


:umm2:

It appears
he held the Police off with his Magazine Rifle

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...illed-him.html

This is so, so sad.

I don't understand why the lives of America's citizens isn't placed at paramount importance, regardless of whether the gun industry is lucrative.

With respect to the Owen Jones thing, i see his point in some respect, but I don't understand how he can speak with such conviction about what the attacker's motives are. I particularly didn't like when he said 'you don't understand because you aren't gay.' We don't know if exactly the reason why they were pursued - yes it's likely homophobically driven, but you can't just own this - terror is something that affects everyone.

I think he has a point, unless you are a targeted minority group you can't fully understand,you can sympathise and be appalled but that's it.

i found this very moving http://wric.com/2016/06/13/video-gay...lando-victims/

True. A valid point.
But at the same time, massacres on this scale have hardly been isolated to minority groups, so his assertion that nobody outside of that group can understand came across a little self serving IMO. His whole attitude didn't help any debate I thought.

true. maybe he got over emotional which is understandable after this horrific attack

It boggles the mind why a military grade weapon is readily available to the public. Why the hell would anyone that isn't on a battlefield have need for an assault rifle?