vesavius' posts shouldn't be being deleted. They're being perfectly respectful and arguing in good faith. A mod disagreeing with them shouldn't enter into it.

I mean, gay people tell me that I shouldn't be offended by heterophobia and they tell me that it actually doesn't even exist.

I guess if you are going to recognise that as ignorance as well and tell those types to listen and learn then we can reach a compromise and agree. :)

(sorry, I tried to delete my previous post but you got to the quote button really fast haha)

I agree. That post should stay up, it’s beautifully worded.

To be fair, I deleted one or two recently myself, because I saw the prior ones being taken down and didn't want to offend the powers that be with views that might not be allowed here.

It's fine, thanks for saying though :)

You want me to call out other gay people denying heterophobia and then you will agree that straight people shouldn’t comment on what is and isn’t homophobia and shouldn’t comment on why should and shouldn’t offend gay people despite the fact that’s all you’ve done on this thread.

It’s almost like you didn’t even believe what you were saying to begin with and just said it to be controversial if your opinion is that easily swayed.

Good to know though - and absolutely. Nobody should tell you heterophobia doesn’t exist and you shouldn’t be offended by it.

I would disagree that there hasn't been anti-straight discourse, erasure, and even bullying over the last decade

I pay attention to a lot of hard left and hardline LGBQT+ media and see it in real time, and that's without the secondary effects of it on mainstream society.

I guess that we get to decide what goes where on our own totem poles and what is an issue or not. No one group gets to dictate what is an issue for another, which I guess is at the heart of what your original point was.

I apologise, I don't really understand what you are saying in your first paragraph.

A big part of what I am saying really is don't expect me to listen to moral lectures from people in this thread that have demonstrated themselves to be bigots.

I am not sure why you have seemingly gone on the attack (?) though... I am happy to have a civil non hostile conversation.

Yes, if you really feel like heterophobia is an issue it’s not up to me, a gay person, to say it’s not.

I might suggest our issues aren’t quite the same - I worry about holding hands with my husband and have to see if it’s safe for me to travel to a specific country - but they’re my issues, and many millions others. Not yours. You have straight-erasure to contend with, I certainly don’t . Nobody has ever tried to erase my straightness.

The thing is, due to certain parts of the Internet and podcasts becoming way more widespread, more straight men have been radicalised or gained the confidence to be more outspoken against women, you see it so often these days and it's very scary so as a result of that you see a lot more people countering it too with negativity about men.

No, they aren't the same, I agree, but it's not up to you to decide that mine are lesser, which is what we are saying right? We both agree on that?

As for travelling to those other countries being dangerous to LBGT... I agree that's awful. But that's down to very clear cultural and religious factors in those places and I am really talking about the UK.

@vesavius, you've become one of my all-time favourite posters.

People still get attacked in the UK for being gay. It’s not a gay utopia and as a result there are things straight people absolutely will take for granted that gay people have to not do or at least risk-assess.

I am not saying your issues are lesser, it’s not my place to. I would say though that the ratio of straight people pretending to be gay because it is safer for them to do so compared to the opposite will be significantly imbalanced. For a reason.

Yes, a lot of straight men have been radicalised, but largely in a direct response to the radicalisation and growth of a heterophobic misandrist hard left.

It's often a direct pushback to the demonisation of straight men that we have seen grow for the last 20 years or so.

Idiots like Tate weren't born in a vacuum... They were created as a reaction to a dominant hardline Leftist anti white male ideology and it's cultural impact.

There was a point, probably around the mid 00s, that a silent ideological decision was made for our course of travel... Equality and fair play to all going forward, or revenge. Sadly, revenge was chosen and here we are.

I wish that we had all just chosen the first option.

:love::love::love:

They do, I agree. And it's getting worse again as demographics change. This is a terrible thing, I agree.

I am not erasing gay issues, I am saying that hetero issues also exist. They may be different, but they exist and they are no less important.

That’s fine but I’ll be honest, a lot of the posts in this thread HAVE been erasing gay issues, or at least the gay issue that happened in CBB this week, which is what my original point was about really.

:joker:

I haven't seen them doing that.

I do think though that there is a natural pushback against the weaponisation of being offended and the use of fake offence being used as a social currency in order to elevate one group above another. maybe that's what you are seeing.

I think a lot of people are just bored of it.... Bored of the Reddit and X lot brigading and bullying over the smallest thing.

Are the vast majority really offended by Mickey's ill judged jokes? I am not saying they were kind or appropriate, I wouldn't have made them myself, but are people really hurt by a 72 year old codger's nonsense? Or is it all mostly just performative pearl-clutching and the gleeful chance to dogpile a celebrity and beat them down?

To those genuinely offended by what Mickey said, that's fine, I respect that, they have that right, I understand, but so many are full of ****.

[emoji106]

Incorrect

Many have done it, and so have you. Calling it “woke liberal” and JoJo was just offended because she was thin skinned. Instead of just saying what it is: inappropriate. By shifting the focus onto the reaction and suggesting it wasn’t something to be offended by automatically trivialises what he said and my point as a straight person, you don’t really get it.

As for the second point, again, straight people don’t get to decide what is and isn’t weaponisation of offence and then when it crosses their line into that give “pushback”. By suggesting that you’re essentially insinuating that gay people are allowed to object to homophobia but only on the parameters set by straight people. Anything louder than a quiet chant and there will be pushback, and you seem to be suggesting that pushback is justifiable.

Gay people have been fed threads of freedom and acceptance over decades and now they finally have hold of the end of the rope certain members of society have decided they’ve been given too much.

And I know this is coming across as me solely going for you, I don’t meant it to, it’s just you are the only one talking to me haha.

I think he's the only one in there that can take a joke.

gurl please

How does 'woke liberal' erase anything? It is simply a label to separate modern 'progressive' authoritarian liberal from mainstream 90s liberal.

It doesn't erase anything.

I'm actually a JoJo fan, but she is incredibly brittle shelled at times due to her upbringing. Woke 'liberalism' definitely also plays into this because it as an ideology teaches that there is social power in being seen as the victim. People are more complex than just boiling them down to 'gay or 'straight'.

If that kind of honest discussion is 'erasure' to you, then I guess we are never gonna agree on that so ok.


Straight people are under no obligation to allow themselves to be bullied into silence by the weaponisation of fake offence.

As you said yourself before, they are allowed an opinion. Gay people don't get to silence or control them, any more than the LGBT+ community should be silenced.

Whether you think it's 'classy' or not is another matter, but you are allowed to think whatever you want about it ofc


This is untrue.

It's not that they have 'too much', it's how a lot of the more radicalised side of LGBT+ choose to use it that causes many on the receiving end of it to push back.

Many now have the rope and just want to use it to whip straight people with it as a revenge. I don't blame many straight people for not wanting to put up with that.

The sweeping statements like this one don't help either though.

It can come across as man bashing imo.

Are you being serious?:joker:

Can we reach a compromise - he really doesn't seem like a homophobic person, but it was a homophobic remark ... even it was a joke/banter, which can be offensive if not played right.

Tbf any group can face prejudice, including straight people for being straight.

Granted I don't believe Glenn to be Hetrophobic, and obviously it's nowhere near as prevalent as Homophobia.

really?

when was the last time you came across homophobia as you go about your daily life?

if ever?

I agree with you on this.

I don't know what kind of solution we as a society can come up with to combat the radicalisation that's happening to both men and women either, without negatively impacting free speech.

Mickey naming Daley and Danny as his favs in there..... that should shut down the homophobia debate surely, it is possible not to like a gay person and not be homophobic, that said I think he and Jo Jo have resolved their issues now so not sure why its being flogged in here ....the horse is dead

I also agree with this.

I do think that a lot of men feel attacked by the Entertainment industry and the media in general, which is why people like Trump, Tate, Farage, and Tommy Robinson have gained such huge followings within the male demographic (especially white straight men.)

To be balanced though, people like Anita Sarkeesian was only able to garner such a big following, and radicalized some Feminists was because those women didn't feel like that they were welcomed into certain activities that were dominated by straight men.

Basically it keeps going full circle where both sides keep trying to outdo each other with how hateful they can be towards the other gender.

Gosh, I had forgotten about Sarkeesian... :joker:

That's going back to the Gamergate days! GG was never about that though, tbh, but that's a whole conversation in itself, probably not for here haha

I think that's fair.

I watch Melonie Mac videos for starters.:laugh:

So never in your day to day life me neither

its almost like its been weaponised by activists....

:skull:

I sincerely appreciate the olive branch, but I just think 'homophobic' is just so badly overused.

In the end, I guess the only person on the end of his words was JoJo and she has clearly made peace with it and moved on, so at this point I am happy to as well.

You’re not gay

I'm practically a shut-in.:joker:

I do understand that it is a complicated topic tbf.