Nurture doesn't mean there has to be a specific pin point of something that made them gay.

It's saying that, just like everything else about that person, it's a combination of EVERYTHING in their life. Therefore you can't have a formula for what makes anyone anything because no two people have the same experiences/life specifically. There are too many factors involved in life to pinpoint.

It's one huge lottery. Depending on which variables in our lives change, we can be different people in different ways, sexuality included.

Like earlier, I wasn't suggesting a different culture would make you gay or straight, I was suggesting culture is ONE OF MANY ways in which someone's life can be different and therefore have created a different person.

So many things influence it then?

Yes.

But things influence it all the same. It isn't an inherent part of you that you are born with, like a hereditary condition. :laugh:

You won't feel that your sexuality was nurtured though or be able to pin point specific things that helped develop it, of course not. Just as you won't be able to recall specific things that created your mannerisms, your interests, your style choices, your personality, etc etc. It's not something you can really look back on and correlate saying 'yeah that caused that and x caused y', it just happens without you even knowing.

When people realise they are gay, even when they're very young, that is because their sexuality has been formed in the early years of their life. I'm sorry but I really can't buy into the notion that you're sat in the womb, or even as far back as being part sperm part egg, and already you're gagging for the d or v. Or both. Babies are the the furthest thing from sexualised you can get.

So how does the nuture argument have any basis then?

Is it not a genetic thing though somewhere along the line or is that all just bull****?

People thinking anything other than your born gay :worry:

My personal belief is that it is a mixture of environmental exposure and recessive genes.

Not that it matters, just a theory of mine. I don't think its a choice whatsoever though, and not something that can be 'cured'.

All of the influences in life IS the nurture argument.

Are you still thinking it's somehow about a parent teaching which sexuality you should be? :unsure:

Nature is something that you are born with, nurture is dependent on all of life's variables and influences on who we are, which change from person to person who all have very different factors affecting their lives.

Personally, I don't think sexual orientation is something you inherit genetically. :laugh:

I think is rather just stick with I was born gay. The nuture argument is as vague as the whole God created the universe crap.

Oh I don't know, I've turned a few lesbians in my time. :smug:

Did you drug them before hand?

It's not vague.

Just as I couldn't sit here and pin point exactly why I have any of the personality traits /preferences I have in any area of life doesn't make the argument itself vague. :laugh:

I wasn't born with specific food preferences or sexual preferences, it developed later. Not being able to sit and write a simple formula doesn't make it automatically invalid. Psychology of humans and our behaviour is insanely complex. I'd be worried if they could say "abc=straight / xyz=gay"

No, I was just only allowed to use my fingers. :nono:

Agree with OP

Of course it's vague. It's all assumptions and how we think our brains and bodies work.

:smug:

No, it is how we work. That's how we are all unique because no two lives are exactly the same are they?

Otherwise, we'd have test tube babies being born with the parents choosing what sexuality they want them to have, whether they want them to have little patience or a lot, they want them to have a short temper or a penchant for throwing breakable objects. :laugh:

Just because you can't sit down and go "Right, Jay loves being smacked around the bedroom because of xyz" doesn't mean he was born being a sadomasochist. :laugh:

Why do you think people go to therapy? :laugh: To learn more about things, to work through their issues. If we were all conceived as the people we are there'd be nothing we could do to evolve as people.

:fist:

So you believe that people's personalities, mannerisms, characteristics, interests, etc etc are all inherent, were all created when the egg was fertilised? Genetically? You don't believe socialisation is a thing, and that the way people act and are is dependent on the place and time in which they are brought up in and live?

Seriously?

She said she believes some are but it's a different case for others, the way I took it she was merely saying that the "born gay" stance isn't a blanket term that accurately covers all. She also never suggested in the OP that it's a deliberate choice.

I don't see how she's being ignorant or stupid.

Slightly related - I thought this was quite an interesting excerpt from an article on the Guardian I just found:

The Guardian

I think maybe there might not be just one answer?
Maybe there are various factors?
Genetics or social interactions through early life or hormonal imbalances or a combination?

I actually said in a few posts back that I didn't believe that gay babies are born. But I also don't believe that someone's environment or socialisation or how they are brought up determines their sexuality. It's like saying someone born in Brighton is going to grow and and be gay because there's a lot of gay people in Brighton