designed to pierce a metal helmet on entry and exit at 500m

so can you imagine what it was like at 10m in that club?

It isn't always a thoughtful place no, try starting a thread about people falling out of boats in the med and you'll see.
This is a tragic news item yet it still sparked debate, for all kinds of reasons the terrorist angle, the fox news angle the gun laws angle there is nothing wrong with that and nothing is said to upset or bother you.

I agree condescending tones and being accused of pack mentality when voicing your opinion is annoying, but then we all have a standpoint.
It is showing respect to have your say, not one post had the intention to cause trouble it was simply a clash of personal opinion.

In a situation where prejudice has caused so much death and misery can it ever be right to say nothing?

Not to mention this is the debates section so it was always going to lead to a deeper discussion outside of condolences for the victims.

I don't really want to tbh.

It's so frustrating and emotionally draining, these tragedies are a cycle of death that will only keep repeating itself. I'm so sick of it and the inaction on the US government's part to do anything meaningful to prevent these tragedies from occurring.

Yeah, let's hope something actually changes this time.

The gays will get things done :clap1:

It's been such a terrible tragedy, I didn't think this thread could make it feel worse. But it has.

1) Because they are the strongest terrorist organisation in the world, they ****ed the middle east, poor people are suffering for years because of these people also not only that they are attacked to belgium, turkey, sweden etc etc they need to be stopped and it is not only middle east's problem it is the world's problem i dont understand why people dont get this.

2) They are strong in middle east why not attack their homeback and destroy their main support? If you cut their head off they will get weaker and maybe we can save some lives.

that text conversation from one of the victims is just heartbreaking

Yeah this is heartbreaking, I donated to the victims fund I just tend to not talk about these things online.

Owen actually behaved pretty badly IMO. Don't think he did a good job.

He did as well as could be expected considering such a blatant denial of the facts.

Julia Hartley-Brewer does a stellar job of speaking without any knowledge of what she's talking about on the regular.

Barack Obama said there was no indication that the gunman who shot 49 people dead at Pulse in Orlando had been directed from abroad and called the atrocity “an example of home-grown extremism”.

“It appears that the shooter was inspired by various extremist information that was disseminated over the internet,” the President said.

“It does appear that at the last minute he announced allegiance to Isil (Isis) but there is no evidence so far that he was in fact directed by Isil or that it was part of a larger plot.”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7079051.html

What facts?

The fact he specifically targeted an LGBT venue.

Owen rightly showed up that abhorrent waste of a channel they call Sky News up for what they are. This was a deliberate, targeted attack on the LGBT community by a man who had openly said he was revulsed by homosexuality. If you can't see that then you shouldn't even be commenting on the story to be quite honest.

People will bend over backwards to try and pretend that this incident has nothing to do with guns but as many have said, it absolutely does. The fact that a civilian can get their hands on a weapon of the ilk that LeatherTrumpet posted is absolutely ****ing astounding, there is no reason whatsoever why anyone should be able to walk into a store and purchase something like that without extremely thorough background checks. It is beyond comprehension.

And lastly, do ~official~ classifications of what is and isn't a 'terrorist' act really matter? Often they are laced in institutionalised racism and quite frankly any person or people who commit an act of mass murder in an instance like this is a terrorist. Who or what they connected to is completely irrelevant when giving them the label.

Of course he did. And although it's highly likely, we don't know for a fact that it was an attack on the LGBT community exclusively, and in addition to this, this attack affects everyone, for that very reason.

What I take issue with is him saying 'you don't understand, you're not gay.' That is completely incorrect, as we don't know his exact motive, and the fact he's trying to narrow it down to homophobia, when in fact it's a much wider issue of radical Islam that's the issue.

The Taliban are the worst

:clap1:

I'm sorry but I don't understand how there's an issue with anything Sky News actually said?

Is this aimed at me?

I can air my views on the matter if I so wish.

Not just that but this is not the first and unfortunately will not be the last attack of its kind around the world. To suggest no one outside of that community of people can understand it is just self centred.

It's literally a global issue of evil people choosing their targets, whether it's because of religion/race/sexuality or any other stupid reason.

I could see his issue towards the beginning with the reporters refusal to even make comment to the fact it was an LGBT based attack.

But Jones' behaviour and attitude just made out like he was the spokesperson "for the people". Just sh*t like that grates and makes it about them having a tantrum rather than the much more important events of those whose lives were lost.

I agree wholeheartedly. What happened, happened, and will happen again, and who knows who the target will be.

Repeatedly refusing to acknowledge that this was a homophobic attack and trying to steer the conversation in typical fashion to the perpetrator's ties and you guessed it...whether it had anything to do with Islamic fundamentalism.

The anchor acted like a pompous twat and Owen showed up their pathetic 'news' coverage for what it really is: biased, inflammatory agenda-setting by the Murdoch scum.

It's aimed at the anchor of Sky News, people on Twitter who are denouncing him as some kind of ISIS sympathiser, people in this thread. Anyone. Because trying to pretend the fact that a man whom had said the sight of two men kissing repulsed him entered a gay nightclub whose patrons are predominantly members of the LGBT community and shot 50+ of them dead isn't a targeted act of homophobia is not just idiotic but it's also ****ing insulting.

Owen was right, if he'd targeted a synagogue the attack would have rightly been called anti-semetic and this is no different. It's calling a spade a spade.

Totally with you on this Jack.

I said the same in this thread a bit earlier but for some reason my post god deleted. :shrug:

:clap1:

Can't blame Owen for walking out, those other two idiots were trying to erase the LGBT angle which is just plain insulting.

wait you mean terrorism isn't just a brown person killing people?????? :o :o :o

It's clear to me, he went to a gay venue ergo he was targeting gays.
If it had been a Jewish venue it would instantly be seen (quite rightly) as antisemitic, so why can this not be stated as a homophobic terrorist attack?

I don't believe those outside the communities affected by prejudice can know, they can empathise and be repulsed but can't fully understand.

Aside from the fact he targeted a gay club and the interview with his father:

I'm not sure how much more clear it needs to be that the motivation for this attack was homophobic...

Hasn't his Dad made comments about how 'god will deal with the homosexuals'?

..I think that CeeCee associated it well with 'Black Lives Matter'...these hate killings couldn't have happened to anyone, like they were saying in the vid..'it could have been any of us..'..but no, they could have only happened to the LGBT community because that was the only target of his hate and terrorism..but they just didn't hear Owen's words or acknowledge them...all of the other factors that were discussed also came into play..(which he acknowledged ..)..but they couldn't take a moment for that one thing, which was the most important fact of all...

Spot on Kizzy :clap1:

Said it better than what I was going too, their behaviour was abhorrent. Telling him he couldn't have ownership of a tragedy just because he's gay as well. It was a farce from the beginning and he did right getting out of it.

This happened miles away from me. I have friend of friends that were killed. It's a very sad day in Orlando.

Nicole :(

Nicole :( I'm so sorry