Here, here totally agree. Amazing in the 21st century we have so many ignorant bigoted homophobes.

What stood out to me was how Shilpa dealt with these racist comments by being so dignified and composed, also showing forgiveness.

I will never forget her, she was amazing.

It made those awful women look worse by being compared with her, her ability to deal with them in such a classy way, wiped the floor with their abhorrent abuse.

what has that anecdote got to do with this straw man thread?

I am not telling her not to have an opinion. You should respect my right to criticize her then since that is my opinion :nono:

Seems like a lot of the people that pull the "it's just her opinion!!!" card don't realize that I can also have an opinion about her opinion. Right to an opinion doesn't mean right to say what you want without being criticized.

I found it weird that there was a rumour Jack called Shilpa a "p..." ,surely the idiot would of been removed if it was true?? :suspect: . There was something uncomfortable with the way they treated Shilpa ,and even if people deny racism it DIDN'T look good

Even if Jade forgot her name how TF do you mix popadom up with Shilpa, even if she was joking :crazy: .

That's like IF Shilpa called her "rice" as a joke , literally looks stupid !! .And obviously it will seem racist saying popadum as Shilpa is Indian .

Plus Danielle was ignorant AF and said Shilpa can't speak English properly, Jo sat on her arse and laughed like a sheep .

I remember when Maxwell did something similar about Kemal BB6 but he got away with it as a joke by saying Kebab instead of Kemal,but that could be seen as racist as Kemal was Turkish. But I think he was just taking the Pee out his name as Maxwell was a foul pig anyway .

I fully understand the topic of the discussion and do not purposely ignore.

When you comment on what I actually posted about, you will get a reply.

Exactly, thank you a sensible non inflammatory post.

Why would I comment on what you posted when it isn't on topic.

It was, even if you didn't think so.

Jade didn't get her name mixed up. She purposely said poppadom as a joke because she didn't know her surname. Hence her and Danielle laughing after she said it.

But you're right. In isolation those comments aren't worth anything. Just as Maxwell's comment and just as Anthony's comment to Derek "Malteser head" but placed in the context of cbb5 it's not a good look.

The ONLY racism that series ,But it was against white people who dont matter ,the last years Jade had were ruined by lies ,like the lies still being said on here and other media.........years she should have enjoyed with her boys

Tory MPs are not the topic of discussion. Ann Widdecombe is.

Anthony got away with "Maltese head" as it was a daft comment when they were arguing .
Anthony was like a mentally challenged child most the time. But with Shilpa it was non stop that's why people said it's bullying and racism .

And the argument about 'white trash" was clearly fuelled as a retaliation ,but I find that daft as well especially when white people say especially white Americans say "white trash" . But again it's not as bad as other stuff that could of been used .

You are not just critising her though you are critising fans that are agreeing with her right to have an opinion...which you agree she should have??:shrug:

Really you couldn't see racism anywhere else? Me thinks you purposely overlooked it all.

Because the vote in Parliament has been mentioned umpteen times by umpteen posters, those who voted and in what numbers becomes relevant.

It was not just Tory MPs, it was across the board.

176 MPs voted against gay marriage, not just Ann Widdecome.

That's what I meant. They're all daft childish comments. It's the context that is key.

Yes. But, for the third time, none of those are currently in CBB and the topic of this forums discussion. Ann Widdecombe is.

Why on earth would we be discussing any of the others?

No I just think most of her fans are being disingenuous. I am criticizing them for being cowardly. It's clear many agree with her views but they are not brave enough to say that, so they hide behind the usual facade of liking her because "she tells it like it is."

You can say what you like, it doesn't mean it is true. How many times have you heard, I do not support her views but I support her right to express it within the law.

Im an Ann fan and far from cowardly, i defend her and everyones right to their own minds, but you seem to think you've a right to change her mind? No one has that right

Because they were there when Ann voted.

You just want to blame her but there are 175 others as well. Your silence about these other MPs is deafening.

Ok,I dont find it entertaining two adults rolling round on the floor,showing us their arseholes,talking disgustingly I DONT WANT TO SEE IT, OR HEAR IT,get it,got it,good.

Poppsy,she is a Tory that's all we really need to know.:laugh:

People are debating whether or not they believe Ann is homophobic or holds homophobic views.

Stop pretending anyone is trying to change her mind or stifle her right to an opinion. Not one single person had done that.

I don't believe it for a second when I do hear that, because the people that say that don't extend that same tolerance to housemates they dislike.

If this is said too many times that homophobia is rife where it doesn't exist, it could promote a backlash against what has already been achieved.

No one likes to be called a liar or a homophobe without proof.

That's a huge assumption to make :nono: .

Daniel & Jonny who lived with Ann don't agree with her views yet they still like and respect her .

You're generalising Ann's entire fanbase which is ridiculous, that's like saying all Shane J fans must be gay :facepalm: .

Are you for real?

It isn't what I have been reading on here.

Blame her for what? You seriously need to stop letting your imagination run off and read the posts in the context of a debate and discussion about whether or not Ann is homophobic.

No one is suggesting Ann is the sole homophobe in the world or the only politician to ever make a controversial choice. Or the only woman who ever voted against gay marriage.

We're discussing her and her career alone in the context of what the topic is about. We're not discussing Tory's or other politicians.

Stop derailing the debate by taking it down silly paths like this.

People are debating whether she's homophobic. I haven't seen anyone say she should change or be forced to change. Just people should stop denying what her opinions are, bigoted.

Hear,Hear as Ann would say !!

I think forget we vote for people (well we try to) who share similar values, so Ann represents a portion of the population. Does it make her views correct? No... but it shows we're not all the same and there are different reasons I think people have for voting someone in and what we may consider homophobic, may not really be that in other people's eyes... they see it as a value difference and you don't have to agree. But that is a democracy...

It's difficult for me to take an extreme opinion, because there's lots of things I could have an extreme opinion on... for example, people who are from cultures that don't treat animals well. It is a major issue for me, but if I were to encounter people and tell them "You are a cruel abuser!"... it does nothing for me, nothing for them, nothing for society.

We just have to remember that we live in a democracy and sometimes what is not fair for us, is fair for others, as their opinions (ideally) should have equal weight... in a democracy.

Now on a forum, the rules are different... we are allowed to play out those differences here and we voice our opinion whether otherwise we would not be able to. So if I saw someone who was practicing behavior I disagreed majorly with, this would be an opportunity for me to be like "Hey, do you consider your behavior here when it effects ****"...

I don't think it is wrong that some people like their culture and the way they do things, but there is a problem when we decide as individuals to say our culture is superior to others...

I mean there's a lot of things I could say about being American that give me a headache. There are a lot of people here who don't care about the environment, who are happy to throw trash on the road and generally, don't care that they feed their kids tons of fast food, processed garbage and junk food, and are surprised when they suddenly have major health problems (especially mental) and other learning issues when they are older...

My grandmothers, both religious and strong matriarchs, made us sit down to a table and made us use proper language and forced us to finish what we got from our bowls. Said that it's not right that we waste food we got off our plate... well, they also say things about God and other things that other people here would call superstitious.. But we didn't talk much about religion growing up and now I see from their angle better as an adult, why for them having decorum in how you behave and treats others is so important nowadays...

My point is, you can watch Ann and you can say her views are homophobic... but you can't say anything else about her views. The rest of her views, actually, are things that are missing from our society. Such as self-respect, dignity, decorum, caring for your reputation and looking after others (some people would call this bossy :laugh:)... there's nothing necessarily wrong with this... but she's one thing in a huge melting pot, which is Western culture. No single individual defines who we are as a society, and I think that's where diversity is a strength...

So yes, she is showing what I would call homophobic... but to judge a person based on one thing would be unfair. You have to see the whole picture, their upbringing and see where their views work and don't work... and where it doesn't work is that she's not able to share in some of the other changes in society that have made us a more positive and less restrictive way of expressing ourselves...

Anyway, I think that some could maybe borrow a lesson or two from Ann, but that also others could rub off on her... though maybe not literally :laugh:

She is in her 70's, the end is nearer than farther... so she may be even more concerned about the end of life and her self-perception as a religious person may not be up to snuff, so she may have that in mind there when being environment that she may come off very wrong... and I think that is her right. She has sacrificed comfort to stick to her guns and to challenge others, and I think that's true for most devout people in 2010+... it's "risky" to say these views in the public, much less the homophobic stuff, but even just anything about religion... it's stigmatized now..

...but then again, what isn't stigmatized anymore? That's pretty much 100% of cultural discourse these days is stigmatizing this that and the other and having your (often strong) opinion about it... that is Western culture now, strongly opinionated and staunchly this or that... that mushy middle is slowly disappearing.

TDLR... Sorry, you have to read the post. :laugh: #maruthuglife

nice post maru

Great post as always Maru..:hug:

Excellent post Maru (i won't re-post it a 4th time!)

You are so right, the middle ground is getting lost.

"Anyone who disagrees with me... must be Hitler!" is the motto for lots of people these days

People like that have lost the art of seeing in subtle shades of grey; they boil everything down to either black or white and then judge accordingly.

It's really impatient and extreme.

Once they put a label on someone: Bang! That's it: "I don't have to listen or care about you anymore, and I can completely dismiss you, all because i've labelled you a (whatever)"

The joke is, that is what racists do: put people into extreme pigeon-holes, then judge them, then hate them for it - while ignoring their positive traits and their common humanity.

Excellent post! Very well expressed - I hope we hear more from you.

Good stuff

I have just re read the initial conversation between Ann and Shane J which I felt was very different from how she has been perceived on here.

I cannot seem to post it, can anyone post it for me as it gives a very different perspective and an agreement between Ann and Shane J over their differences before Andrew shoved his oar in.

I would be very grateful if someone could look for it and post it, thank you. Xx

Have you got a video link Poppsy?