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So SaudiArabia asked Bush to Bomb Iran :Wikileaks Battle

Just confirmed on Ch4 News and SkyNewsHD

Now Saudi Arabia is not happy with this info now in the public.

And China has Hacked the Internet of many nation.

And Even sominthing on our Royal Family.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...plomacy-crisis

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-released.html

Will the Yanks arrest some of the Wikileak men?

They can't.

America has freedom of the press.

It's unconstitutional.

America is not Britain.

Im more concerned about the fact that Iran is fortifying its arsenal with the aid of North Korea D:

why the **** would Wikileaks do this? Have they got no conscience whatsoever? Taking the "everything must be public!!!!" route might be truthful but it's also incredibly naive and dangerous.

I'm genuinely concerned about the state of international fears now, what with the Koreans and this.

The Wikileaks founder is an irresponsible moron

Can't wait to hear more.

Assange should be awarded a medal! The world has the right to know what the government is doing in their name!

Not if it could potentially lead to squabbles and eventually war..

Quote:

Originally Posted by letmein (Post 3949247)

Assange should be awarded a medal! The world has the right to know what the government is doing in their name!

That's rather assumptive of the world dealing with said information responsibly. Instead, this is going to fuel the paranoid and the insecure (and lord knows we have enough of those in power) with justification for war and tension.

There's absolutely no right to know what the government is saying and doing - most of these are off-the-cuff remarks that are now going to be magnified by those who assume they 'have a say' and a 'right to hear' everything, which has been fuelled by mass media.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 3949364)

Your line of thinking is the reason why Britain is a Nanny State. Do what the government tells you! Question nothing! The gestapo would love you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate (Post 3949287)

Not if it could potentially lead to squabbles and eventually war..

Tough! Perhaps the government will think next time before lying us into wars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by letmein (Post 3949365)

Your line of thinking is the reason why Britain is a Nanny State. Do what the government tells you! Question nothing! The gestapo would love you!

Ohai Godwin.

Not at all - the kind of information leaked doesn't influence us in any way, the dealings are diplomatic, not domestic.

And my point still stands about how dangerous and irresponsible this information is. Your "tough!" comment really says it all, though...just don't go asking for a nuclear shelter, then. See how glorious freedom is then.

This is appalling. I'm curious to read everything, yes, aren't we all, but this is so unbelievably damaging; there are just some things that shouldn't be out in the open, particularly not in a massive data leak at one time. Now that it's out there, it can't disappear. I agree with Shaun, this along with the North/South Korea stand off is making me very nervous about what might happen next.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zee (Post 3949370)

Zee
Many Saudi's want something Big and Deadly to happen
to them (Iran) it is Cutting the Head off the Snake.

And The North Korean Public want the South Korea War
as after it, it would mean they will all Eat a proper meal.
Of course North Korea has the Bigger Threat as they could , if they chosse to,
use Nukes.

But these are well away from Scotland
or England.
You will still be Standing Tall after any Fights.

Feel The Force

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 3947219)

The reason that evil flourishes is that it's done secretively and corruptly - it is good that this information is in the public domain. Our leaders should not be exempt from scrutiny and censure. Am looking forward to further revelations, some of which I already suspected but are now confirmed.

It's about how that escalates though, arista. Do you think the US and the rest of the world would sit back as North Korea uses those sorts of weapons?

However, I do take comfort in the fact that even China, their strongest ally, has been eager to try and resolve the situation. I do think maybe it's just the afraid person in me that's exaggerating this kind of threat.

But back on topic, with the Wikileaks stuff, this isn't going to help any kind of diplomacy, it's just put a lot of people in embarrassing situations and is going to exacerbate any tensions with the Middle East, particularly Iran. It's dangerous stuff - quotes like "The current Iranian regime is effectively a fascist state and the time has come to decide on next steps.", "Without progress in the next few months, we risk nuclear proliferation in the Middle East, war prompted by an Israeli strike, or both" - they're not just embarrassing for the United States - how do you think Iran is going to respond to that? Sure, they're always hateful and dismissive of the West, but all sorts of wheels could now be in motion.

"It's about how that escalates though, arista. Do you think the US and the rest of the world would sit back as North Korea uses those sorts of weapons?"

No they are already backing South Korea with big Ships,
Which makes the Yanks look like the Big Bully.
If the North uses a Nuke, America after it could fire into the North.

But China wants America to behave

It would be over in seconds with no warning
thats the best way.

But Again
It is more a Yank Issue than ours.
The Yanks have a bad record there.

You can have a War there and not here
and once you get into Nukes the Yanks think they are the King.
Maybe North Korea has had enough.

The talks between the UAE and the US were from 5 years and to be honest not that spectacular or unusual here is the one the news outlets are desperate to make sound as dramatic as they can.
the full 256 documents are here http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/
there are still over 251,000 to come.

Quote:

S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 04 ABU DHABI 001401

SIPDIS

NOFORN

STATE FOR NEA/FO, NEA/ARP, INR/NESA, AND S/CT - H. CRUMPTON
NSC FOR FRAN TOWNSEND, JUAN ZARATE, MIKE TAYLOR, NICOLE
SHAMPAINE, NIK RAMCHAND, ELLIOTT ABRAMS

E.O. 12958: DECL: 04/09/2016
TAGS: PTER PINS ASEC EPET MCAP KPAL AE IZ IR
SUBJECT: SCENESETTER FOR HOMELAND SECURITY AND
COUNTERTERRORISM ADVISOR TOWNSEND'S VISIT TO THE UAE

REF: A. 05 ABU DHABI 3243
¶B. 05 ABU DHABI 3565
¶C. ABU DHABI 409
¶D. ABU DHABI 779
¶E. ABU DHABI 1228
¶F. ABU DHABI 248 (NOTAL)
¶G. ABU DHABI 176
¶H. ABU DHABI 605
¶I. USDEL 00007
¶J. ABU DHABI 1123
¶K. ABU DHABI 909 (NOTAL)

Classified By: Ambassador Michele J. Sison, reasons 1.4 (b) and (d).

¶1. (S) Summary. Embassy Abu Dhabi looks forward to welcoming
you to the UAE on April 23. In the aftermath of the
controversy of the Dubai Ports World acquisition of P&O, your
assurances to Abu Dhabi Crown Prince Sheikh Mohammed bin
Zayed (MbZ), your host for the visit, that the USG values the
UAE as an ally and friend will be well received. While you
should commend the UAE for its assistance and cooperation,
you should take advantage of your luncheon with MbZ and his
brother, State Security Director Sheikh Hazza, to push the
UAE on several areas of interest to the USG:
counterterrorism, counter terror finance, Iran, Hamas, Iraq,
and ideological extremism (each is covered in the
scenesetter). The UAE remains a committed partner in the
global war on terror, but it continues to take an ad hoc
approach to countering terrorism that "solves" the problem
for the UAE locally, but fails to contribute on a
transnational basis. In January, the U.S. and the UAE held
the first meeting of the Joint Terrorist Finance Coordinating
Committee (JTFCC), but the discussions were not as detailed
or as robust as the U.S. delegation anticipated. Treasury
U/S Levey will return to the UAE to hold a second meeting
April 30 that will focus on cash couriers and charities.

¶2. (S) Although the UAE regards Iran as one of its most
serious threats to national security, UAE officials are
reluctant to take actions that could anger their neighbor and
compromise their extensive trading relationship. At the same
time, we are seeing more of a willingness on the part of the
UAE to support USG initiatives without the full approval of
the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). As tensions escalate
between Iran and the international community, the UAE is
growing increasingly nervous. The UAE leadership--which has
told us they consider Hamas a terrorist organization--plans
to uphold its previous commitments of humanitarian assistance
to the Palestinian people. The UAE has taken an active role
in encouraging Sunni participation in the Iraqi political
process and it continues to condemn the sectarian violence
that is preventing stabilization of the country. In the face
of growing ideological extremism in the Gulf, the UAE
leadership is politically determined not to allow Islamist
extremists to gain a foothold on UAE soil. End Summary.

Counterterrorism Efforts
------------------------

¶3. (S) The UAE is concerned about the terrorist threat to the
UAE, but lacks a comprehensive implementation strategy for
reducing its vulnerability (ref A). The UAE considers
homeland security one of its top priorities, but rather than
prioritizing national security projects, its efforts have
focused on contracting risk assessments, forming committees,
and procuring equipment. The UAE has also aggressively tried
to prevent the radicalization of UAE nationals and Arab/South
Asian expatriates. UAE officials publicly and strongly
condemn extremism and terrorist attacks, anti-extremism has
been the focus of government-approved Friday sermons in the
mosques, and the UAE ministry of Education has modernized the
Islamic studies curriculum in its schools.

¶4. (S) The UAEG government reacts quickly when presented with
evidence of a terrorist presence inside the UAE, but does not
approach the problem from a transnational manner. The UAE's
immediate response when terrorists pose a risk is to deport
them. UAE agencies do not investigate fully to see how far
the problem goes or whether there is an international network
involved. Although the U.S./UAE counterterrorism cooperation
is strong (with the UAE working closely with the USG on
specific cases), Emiratis do not consistently share lead
information found in the possession of individuals in their
custody with each other or with the U.S. Government. These
tactics limit law enforcement and intelligence services'
ability to use intelligence to disrupt extremist cells and
planned attacks. The UAE's insistence on deportation as a
solution does not protect the country long-term or truly
address the nature and scope of the problem. The UAEG must
be willing to take action against Emirati nationals, it must
investigate fully, and it must share information with other
Gulf countries and with the USG.

¶5. (S) The only way to generate significant change in the UAE
on the issue of counterterrorism is to convince the senior
leadership that it needs to continue to display political
will and commitment in tackling the terror challenge with a
transnational approach. MbZ is the person most able to
elicit this type of change. Embassy recommends you have a
frank and forthright discussion during your meeting with MbZ
and his younger brother, Hazza, to encourage this type of
change. Although you should commend them for the UAE's CT
efforts and cooperation, you should also encourage them to be
personally involved in developing a more effective and fully
cooperative counterterrorism posture.

Counterterrorism Finance
------------------------

¶6. (S) The UAE has made significant strides in regulating the
financial sector against money laundering and terrorist
financing (ref B). Although the UAE now has a strong legal
framework in place, it must turn its efforts to enforcement.
It is imperative that UAE authorities investigate and
prosecute violators of terror finance/anti-money laundering,
cash courier, and charity laws and regulations. To date,
investigation and prosecution has been weak. In an effort to
increase U.S. and UAE cooperation on terrorist financing, the
first meeting of the U.S/UAE Joint Terrorist Finance
Coordinating Committee (JTFCC) was held in Abu Dhabi on
January 24, 2005 (ref C). The UAE team had representatives
from the Central Bank, State Security, Ministries of
Interior, Foreign Affairs, and Justice. However, no one
participated from Dubai. In order for the JTFCC to be an
effective committee, Dubai's Police, State Security, Customs,
and the Department of Islamic Affairs and Charities must
participate. Embassy is coordinating a second meeting April
30 that will focus on cash couriers and charity regulations.

Iran
----

¶7. (S/NF) UAE leaders are very concerned about escalating
tensions between Iran and the international community. The
UAE feels vulnerable--as evidenced by the fact that its
leaders frequently note that Iran is "very near" the UAE.
Commercial ties between Dubai and Iran are significant (Dubai
is Iran's largest non-oil trading partner), and as a result
the UAEG walks a fine line between maintaining and
encouraging this trade and working to prevent suspected
Iranian proliferation activities. Although the UAEG is
worried about Iran's nuclear ambitions, its short-term policy
decisions regarding Iran center on not provoking its
neighbor. The USG has approached the UAEG four times since
January, asking it to interdict and inspect cargo suspected
of going to Iran's nuclear and/or missile programs. None of
those instances have resulted in a successful interdiction.
In the first two instances UAE officials simply refused to
take action (refs F and G). The Director of Dubai's State
Security Organization explained during the 11 February
U.S./UAE Counterproliferation Task Force meeting that the
decision to not inspect the containers had been a political
decision based on the UAE's concern that Iran might retaliate
(ref H). In the two later instances (ref K), ships that had
been scheduled to arrive in Dubai went directly to Bandar
Abbas.

¶8. (S) In recent meetings with senior USG officials, MbZ has
expressed clear support for U.S. initiatives against Iran.
MbZ and UAE Vice President and Prime Minister Sheikh Mohammed
bin Rashid agreed with Secretary Rice February 23 about the
need to counter Iran's growing influence in the region and
its nuclear ambitions, although they specified that any
sanctions should target the key Iranian leadership, not the
Iranian people (ref I). MbZ told A/S Welch March 28 that he
did not think it was necessary to wait for all Gulf
Cooperation Council (GCC) countries to agree before
proceeding with any plans against Iran (ref E). "Whoever is
interested in getting on board ship should be encouraged," he
said. "I don't think it's logical or smart to wait for
everyone to get involved so we can sail. ... If another GCC
member believes it's not right, that's his choice." In the
Arab region, MbZ specifically identified Bahrain and Jordan
as two countries that also view Iran as a threat and that are
"capable to work with us." He told A/S Welch that the UAE
would prepare a paper responding to USG concerns about Iran
and mechanisms for addressing the challenge posed by Iran.
In a March 27 meeting with CENTCOM Commander General Abizaid,
MbZ spoke about the Iranian threat with a greater sense of
urgency. He was strongly in favor of taking action against
Iran and its president sooner rather than later. "I believe
this guy is going to take us to war. ... It's a matter of
time," MbZ warned, adding that action against Iran and
President Ahmedinejad should be taken this year or next year.
MbZ said he was unwilling to wait much longer. "Personally,
I cannot risk it with a guy like Ahmedinejad. He is young
and aggressive."

¶9. (S/NF) SSD Director Hazza told A/S Welch March 29 that the
Ayatollah Ali Khameini had once issued a fatwa prohibiting
the use of nuclear weapons by Iran, but noted that this
should not be considered a guarantee. Hazza assessed that
Iran is also a threat due to its ties to international
terrorist organizations, including al-Qaida, as well as their
financial support to Hamas. He added that the relationship
between Iran and Syria, and their links to Hizballah, was
also of concern, as was Iran's attempts to expand its
influence in Iraq and elsewhere in the world. MbZ also
expressed to A/S Welch March 28 the concern that Hizballah
was supporting Hamas. During your meeting, you should
explain the graduated approach to addressing Iran in the
United Nations Security Council and encourage the UAE to
isolate Iran--regardless of potential economic backlash. You
should also explain the importance of the UAE working closely
with the USG on interdiction requests. This meeting will be
a good follow-on to the discussion U/S Joseph had with
Foreign Minister Abdullah bin Zayed al-Nahyan (AbZ) on April
8, where Joseph outlined the USG's policy priorities for Iran
(septel). (Note: While AbZ, like MbZ, expressed support for
U.S. initiatives against Iran, he stated that the USG should
come to the UAE as a "very last resort. ... If you can solve
something without involving the UAE, please do so." End
Note.)

Palestinian Territories/Hamas
-----------------------------

¶10. (S) UAE leaders have told us that they consider Hamas a
terrorist organization and that they would not fund Hamas
unless they denounce violence (refs D and E). However, after
Hamas political chief Khaled Meshaal visited Abu Dhabi on
March 22 and met with UAE Minister of Presidential Affairs
Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed al-Nahyan and Minister of State for
Foreign Affairs Mohammed al-Sha'ali, Meshaal publicly claimed
that the UAEG had pledged to continue to provide financial
assistance to the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority (ref J).
MbZ told A/S Welch March 28 that the UAEG allowed Meshaal to
come, but that "officially, we don't recognize Khaled
Meshaal." MbZ said that once a new Palestinian Prime
Minister is selected, UAEG officials will travel to the
Palestinian territories to ascertain that UAEG assistance is
"going to the right people." UAE Vice President and Prime
Minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid sounded a note of
optimism when he told Secretary Rice February 23 that Hamas,
"with some pressure," would understand the need to respect
the will of the international community.

¶11. (S) The UAE has historically provided significant
financial assistance to the Palestinian people. Typically,
the UAE sends aid to the Palestinian territories through
charity organizations, or by projectized assistance; but the
UAEG has also provided financial assistance directly to the
Palestinian Authority, most recently $20 million in March
2006 to Mahmoud Abbas for salaries. In the wake of the Hamas
electoral victory, UAE leaders told us they intend to honor
their previous commitments of humanitarian assistance
(including the $100 million Sheikh Khalifa housing complex
that was announced last year).

¶12. (S/NF) In his meeting with A/S Welch March 29, SSD
Director Hazza assessed that there was both a positive and a
negative side to the Hamas election win. On the negative
side, he cited Hamas' position with regard to Israel, and
their violent agenda. On the positive side, Hazza noted the
fact that Hamas was now in power and was accountable to the
international community. He spoke to A/S Welch of the threat
posed by the Muslim Brotherhood. Hazza also asked A/S Welch
how the USG would react to those countries that did support
the Hamas government, and whether they would run afoul of
U.S. laws restricting support to terrorist organizations.
A/S Welch replied that that would be a problem, emphasizing
that no money should go to the government unless Hamas
renounced violence and accepted Israel. A/S Welch also told
Hazza that it was not the responsibility of the U.S. or other
Arab countries to pay the salaries of the new Hamas
government, underscoring the need for Hamas to show
accountability. MbZ told A/S Welch that Hamas benefited from
"official and private contributions" from Saudi Arabia,
Kuwait, and Qatar. MbZ said it was "easy to take $1 million
in a suitcase" to Lebanon, alluding to cash couriers.

Iraq
----

¶13. (S/NF) A partner in the war on terror, the UAE continues
to provide U.S. forces access, overflight clearances, and
other critical logistical assistance to Operation Iraqi
Freedom (and Operation Enduring Freedom). The UAE has also
been a helpful supporter of Iraq's burgeoning political
process. It has worked with Iraqi political and religious
figures to encourage greater Sunni integration, and it has
consulted with Ambassador Khalilzad on a number of occasions
about the need to stem sectarianism in Iraq. The UAE has
publicly condemned acts of sectarian and terrorist violence
in Iraq, most recently, the February 22 bombing of the
al-Askariya Shrine. MbZ and Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid
expressed their concerns about Iran's interference in Iraq's
internal affairs to Secretary Rice during her visit to Abu
Dhabi February 23. MbZ further told General Abizaid that
discontent with Iraqi Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Ja'afari was
creating volunteers for al-Qaida. He pledged the UAE's
support to the fight against al-Qaida. In his meeting with
A/S Welch, MbZ advocated using the Arabic language media to
tell Iraqis the truth about how many of their own people are
dying at the hands of the insurgents. If Iraqis were to see
the figures, he opined, they would conclude that support of
the insurgency is "not worth it."

Ideological Extremism
---------------------

¶14. (S) MbZ and his brothers continue to be outspoken on the
issue of Muslim extremists and the threat they pose to the
region. MbZ underscored for A/S Welch the UAE's preferred
approach of denying extremists a foothold rather than
allowing them to play a role in the political process.
Although he warns of the dangers of free elections in
countries with a well-organized Muslim Brotherhood presence,
he tells USG guests that the UAE will go ahead with
elections. The Emirati leadership has told us that they will
not allow Islamists to participate in elections. (Note: The
UAE has announced that half of the members of the Federal
National Council would be elected while half would continue
to be appointed by the rulers of the various emirates.
Despite this announcement, the UAE still lags behind other
Gulf states in terms of democratization. End Note.) MbZ
also sees extremist ideology threatening the educational
system, where he and his brothers are spending considerable
resources to modernize the curriculum and the teaching corps.
SISON

if we get nuclear bombed it will be like fallout

it will be epic :love:

The Americans are a bit upset about this leak, its not really a major problem, intelligence and diplomatic communities are suspicious of everyone. Most probably already know the contents of not only these documents but also even higher classified ones still in circulation.

When I worked with the yanks in the 80's and 90's occasionally we would come across classified documents with the additional caveat NOFORN it means it should not be allowed to be viewed by foreign nationals. Anyone not American, that is.

We were briefed previously that if this occurred just leave the document to them. Being nosey though most of us would have a peek. The files would contain information similar to this sort of stuff, briefing notes, intelligence assessments and information that they deemed sensitive to their national interests which was sometimes divergent to the UK's.

The Yanks do as a nation suffer from paranoia and love their little secrets.

But all countries act primarily in their own interests. Or rather in the interests of the particular administration in charge of it at the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonsays (Post 3949517)

if we get nuclear bombed it will be like fallout

it will be epic :love:

No any Fall Out is in Asia.

This is not a 1080P BluRay Movie

This is Real Life.

It pisses me off that Washington are trying to make an example of the man who leaked the information. Lighten up, nobody died. You've just got egg on your face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 3949674)

No any Fall Out is in Asia.

This is not a 1080P BluRay Movie

This is Real Life.

:love:

Dan bull sums up my opinion on wikileaks.

Youtube video

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobnot (Post 3960717)

Dan bull sums up my opinion on wikileaks.

Youtube video

Well i for one am glad to live in a democracy, where elected leaders are running the country, not some random dude from the internet.

If Dan Bull thinks he could do a better job, why isn't he running for public office?

I'm sick of all the people online, that have so much criticism, but do nothing about it. Why don't YOU try to run a country, see how easy the decisions seem then. Put YOUR name on the ballot then!

So many Monday morning quarterbacks.

We have the government that WE VOTED FOR. We live in democratic countries. The government is OF the people BY the people FOR the people. the government IS US. But so many people try to pretend they arn't accountable for their own government's actions.

people have no idea how hard it is to make these decisions. You are entrusted by the public to PROTECT them. You may think you know better, but you don't.

If you don't trust yur government, then DON'T ELECT THEM. Simple as that.

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange 'will release poison pill of damaging secrets if killed or arrested'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz17JZotN5B

He has a Master Plan
meanwhile in America on Fox News
they say he is a Terrorist
and must be arrested.

Of Course CNN does not see it that Evil.

But with Secrets of American
Interests or pipes will be of interest
to those Arab Terror Gangs
but you would think they would know all this.

Assange is in hiding
in England.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 3971607)

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange 'will release poison pill of damaging secrets if killed or arrested'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz17JZotN5B

So he's a hipocrite then. He says he's all about getting the truth out, but he's not releasing this information unless he's killed???

If he's all about transparency and honesty, why doesn't he release it right now???

He's an attention *****. I really don't like this man. What a poseur.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 3971611)

So he's a hipocrite then. He says he's all about getting the truth out, but he's not releasing this information unless he's killed???

If he's all about transparency and honesty, why doesn't he release it right now???

He's an attention *****. I really don't like this man. What a poseur.

Some Data should never go public,
he is saving that in case a Yank Hitman or Russian Nuke man kill him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 3971614)

Some Data should never go public,
he is saving that in case a Yank Hitman or Russian Nuke man kill him.

OIC, so basically, he realizes that releasing it would be a bad thing for the world, but if he's killed he thinks "well i'm dead, so ******* the world".

Shows what kind of morals this guy has. He thinks after he's dead, he doesn't give a flying crap what happens to the rest of us. That sounds sooo responsible. After i'm dead, let the world burn. Who gives a flip if it causes misery and suffering, i'll be gone, so ******* it!

What a hero. *rolls eyes*

OIC, so basically, he realizes that releasing it would be a bad thing for the world, but if he's killed he thinks "well i'm dead, so ******* the world".

Good Point,
he thinks they will not get him
and this top secret data stays on a portable hard drive
in the Guardian Safe.

His Lawyer
is tying to deal with the Euro Sex Scandel against him
let alone the Death threats.

Apart from this vile little man releasing information designed to spin the world into chaos....can anyone give me a good reason why he is still alive?

This dude really has been watching too many Bond movies.

i never imagined i'd ever say this in my lifetime.... but i actually agree with Sarah Palin. He needs to be neutralized.

Some random rapist hacker from australia does NOT have the right to decide what is right for the world. We have democratically elected officials to make those decisions.

Julian Assange thinks he has the right to make these decisions for us all?? but at the same time he says he believes in democracy???

And they say American's don't understand irony???

Yes but Fox News, which I also watch
here in the UK,
is taking it like he is a Dead Man Walking.
Why does Fox News not question Barrack on this - Live?

CNN gives a better angle

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 3971707)

Yes but Fox News, which I also watch
here in the UK,
is taking it like he is a Dead Man Walking.
Why does Fox News not question Barrack on this - Live.

CNN gives a better angle

I don't watch any cable news, cnn, fox or msnbc. i've only been following this story on the guardian.

He's gone too far now. He's now released a specific list outlining all of the major targets to disable the US. No one can now say that this isn't an attack on the US.

Wikileaks has now released an actual list of targets against the US for terrorists. Can't wait to hear how Assange and his fat lawyer with bad hair is gonna justify this.

Yes until a Attack
though, nothing is being done.

The President needs to talk about this
or Fox News takes over

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 3971594)

What utter shallow drivel the goverment are civil servants elected and employed by the public to represent the views of the majority of electorate.
It is the responsibility of the public to hold them to account for their policies and their actions and if you dont agree with them it is your responsibility to let them know and if need be vote for somebody else to replace them who you think will do a better job.

How can you make an informed decision on whether or not they are serving the people adequately and fairly when you condone them lying and hiding facts from the very people they represent.

You seem willing to go along with whatever your goverment decides is best for without even questioning them you come across as a sheep that wants to be herded without even wanting to know where you are being led that is scary and that is not democracy.

Who the hell said they wanted dan bull to lead the country? dont be stupid he is a musician who i said i agree with his views on wikileaks that is all.

edit:Oh i have just seen your location that explains a lot.

...and the fact that you judge someone based on where they live, explains everything I need to know about you.

Of course you don't have all the information available, we don't elect leaders based on their policies ONLY, we elect leaders based on their capability to make decisions on our behalf.

Those who voted for lib-dem didn't vote based on just their policies, they voted lib-dem because they trusted that specific candidate to make judgements.

This also plays into the student fee's debate, because all these people who voted lib-dem are complaining that the lib-dems arn't fullfilling their policy commitments, but you don't just vote for a politician for their policies, you vote for them entrusting them to make JUDGEMENTS on your behalf.

You choose a representative, not a policy.

You vote for a PERSON, not a policy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 3971799)

You choose a representative, not a policy.

You vote for a PERSON, not a policy.

Thats not really true, a lot of voters on both sides of the Atlantic vote for the party, they have voted for all their lives. Be it Labour or Conservative. Democrat or Republican. Isnt that where the term dyed in the wool democrat comes from?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasown (Post 3971857)

Well i can' speak for britain, but that's not an excuse here in America, because we have the Primaries, where you get to vote for who represents yur party. You don't just vote for the party candidates here in America, you first have to vote in the primaries, where you choose who will represent each party.

i'm not sure if Britain has any primary system or not, but eigther way, it should be clear that you are voting for a REPRESENTATIVE, it's an actual person! It's not just a gimme vote on any given issue, it's an ACTUAL PERSON, doing a job.

I think a lot of people don't seem to understand the democratic republic model.

Time to catch up on your Plato people. Stop playing the victim.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 3971867)

That is all well and good, but lets just say you were a democrat, they offer you three candidates in the run up to the primaries, you prefer candidate C, however candidate A gets the nomination, do you then not vote for him later in the election process?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasown (Post 3971877)

i think maybe you misunderstand how democracy works... the majority rules, that means you don't always get what you want!

Do you have a better system?

I voted for Hillary clinton in the primaries, but i was left with barack obama as my candidate. i had my say, and i didn't win, so then i had another chice, john mccain or barack obama. I chose barack obama, not because of his policies, but because i trusted his JUDGEMENT.

I disagree with the democratic party on many issues, I don't vote on party lines, some do, i don't.

I vote for the person I trust to make decisions on my behalf. Am i unusual? I hope not.