Are you in favour of animal cruelty?
 

What is the worst form of animal cruelty?

:conf:

Horse racing is hardly cruelty, they love it. I despise neglect which is cruelty.

2 horses died in the Grand National on Saturday.

Vivisection is torture carried out by sadists.

Most of them are really, I chose fox hunting because as a Child I saw a fox torn to pieces once the hounds got it, its a picture in my mind that's never left me and my disgust at the pompous so called well to do Men on horseback laughing at it is beyond all limits.

Could we have a multi choice on the poll, please? I went with Fox hunting, but there are a few there that come VERY close to that.

Surely factory farming & vivisection are worse than fox hunting?

If you think that that should be others opinions, then why the need for the poll then? You asked what others thought, not if they agreed with your choice? :conf: I think most of those in the poll are equally bad if pushed, however we were asked to choose just one, which is why I asked if it could be made a multi choice instead.

I did the same as you too.I would have preferred multi choice as well.

I am in favour of all the above.

They are all pretty bad in my opinion, so i'm not going to vote.

Can't choose between Foie Gras and Factory Farming... or vivisection... or veal... ugh.

None
its the British way of Life.

Then they died happy? :rolleyes:

Some cows are just kept pregnant all the time so they can give milk constantly ,that is just unimaginable. :(

Fox hunting :bored:

Probably battery farming, I'm not really strongly opposed to any of the others

fox hunting because they only kill them as a sport.

and anybody that says none of them are clearly trolling.

Which says it all really :( As it doesn't mean it should be the way of life. If animals have to be slaughtered, then the quicker the better. Not as in Fox Hunting at the ripping of an animal to bits. I don't blame the dogs who have that instinct in them heightened by training. Animals in the main kill for food, some humans for pleasure, as seen by the Fox hunters treating it as a game, and bloodying themselves. They are more barbaric than any of the animal kingdom.

Im all for fox hunting now. Having seen how theyve killed off most of the little bunny wabbits that used to be all over fields in parks near me.

cute rabbits>>evil foxes

Generally we can't avoid animal cruelty. We breed them then kill them to eat. No way of making that look humane. Its just a fact of lifes food chain.

i understand what your trying to say zippy,but some of these fox hunters dont even kill them for meat,sometimes they kill them for clothing or they kill them so they leave there part of the land (which i understand the latter reason) but i still believe theres better ways of dealing with foxes in that situation.

Factory farming.

I dont really know why Fox Hunting is winning, it's a lot more necessary and justified than factory farming

because its seen as a rich mans sport so theres a lot of class resentment. And a lot of ignorance about the problems foxes can cause. Theyre not cute and innocent.

Yes that about sums it up and also some people just arent in touch with life in the real world, I wonder if half of them realise fox hunting has been banned in Scotland since 2002 and in England and Wales since 2004.

I think maybe we should also introduce bear, bull and badger baiting into the debate and watch the "shock and horror at mans inhumanity to little cute furry things" posts snowball.

I think the biggest form of animal cruelty in the UK is the neglect and abuse faced by domestic animals, particularly dogs not being exercised sufficiently. The amount of overweight cats and dogs, being force fed all the left over chocolates and other goodies at christmas and easter etc,

But what is really the lowest form of animal abuse, dogs being forced to wear silly clothes etc, they lose their self respect that way you know, its then a easy slide into doggie depression.

Is it any wonder cats eat their owners after they die?

Yup I love a good bit of animal cruelty I do.

o_o




Cheery thread as ever Kazanne

Bear baiting used to be quite an entertaining way to spend an evening, mind sometimes you have to give the dogs a sporting chance, and remove the bears claws and teeth. Especially if its a pack of Yorkshire terriers or pekingese you are using.

Top tip about that, you are better off having the bear under full anaesthetic, our local dentist reckons the last bear he tried to de-teeth wasnt too keen on local anaesthetics for the extractions. Must have had an aversion to needles or something.

I do the same but with Pandas, They're like it's version of caviar.

Battery farming mostly.

I cant watch horse racing. It makes me want to grab the whips and hit the jockeys with them, make them run :bored:

Foxes have an excuse for killing Rabbits. As far as I'm aware they don't do it in packs on a Sunday evening whilst slightly tipsy for the sheer joy of it.

It's ironic that these venerated, better-than-you sorts are the ones who resort to acting like feral beasts in order to get their thrills. Invest in a Monopoly board or something you sad bastards.

saw something about roughly 700 horses having died in the past 5 years at races... it's just daft.

What a stupid ******ing question.

Well said.

Going to try and find news pieces on each of the Poll choices and the links. Below is the first news item.
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Link to news item

Foie Gras: Delicacy of Despair

To produce "foie gras" (which literally means "fatty liver"), workers ram pipes down male ducks' or geese's throats two or three times daily and pump as much as 4 pounds of grain and fat into the animals' stomachs, causing their livers to bloat to up to 10 times their normal size. Many birds have difficulty standing because of their engorged livers, and they may tear out their own feathers and cannibalize each other out of stress.

The birds are kept in tiny wire cages or packed into sheds. On some farms, a single worker may be expected to force-feed 500 birds three times each day. Because of this rush, animals are often treated roughly and left injured and suffering.

A PETA investigation at Hudson Valley Foie Gras in New York (then called "Commonwealth Enterprises") found that so many ducks died when their organs ruptured from overfeeding that workers who killed fewer than 50 birds per month were given a bonus. Many ducks develop foot infections, kidney necrosis, spleen damage, bruised and broken bills, and tumor-like lumps in their throats. One duck had a maggot-infested neck wound so severe that water spilled out of it when he drank.

Other investigations at Hudson Valley Foie Gras and America's other leading foie gras producer, Sonoma Foie Gras in California, revealed that ducks were crammed into filthy, feces-ridden sheds and that others were isolated in wire cages that were so small that they could barely move. Investigators also observed barrels full of dead ducks who had choked to death or whose organs had ruptured during the traumatic force-feeding process. The investigators rescued 15 ducks, including two who were being eaten alive by rats because they could not move.

Foie gras is so inhumane that in 2004 California passed a law banning the sale and production of foie gras effective in 2012. Force-feeding has also been outlawed in the U.K., Austria, Germany, the Czech Republic, Finland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, South Africa, Sweden, Switzerland, Denmark, and Israel.

Join Sir Roger Moore and countless others around the world in refusing to eat foie gras. You can even take one more step by giving up all animal products for one month. Take PETA's Pledge to Be Vegan for 30 Days, and we'll send you top tips on the best places to eat out, our favorite recipes, the tastiest animal-friendly snacks, and suggestions for the most delicious prepackaged cruelty-free meals.

That is ****ing disgusting. I didnt even know what foie gras meant, and now I just wish I didnt :bored:

I 100% agree with your statement on this.

Not just rabbits though, they pose a big threat to farmers livstock; chickens, lambs etc. and therefore their income. Foxes dont always have a reason either, a lot of the time they'll kill say 5 chickens and eat only 1 of them. I'm not avidly in support of fox hunting but I do think it can do more good than it is given credit for. Obviously it's a contentious issue, both sides have valid points, I'm pretty indifferent on the whole; I wouldnt hunt myself but I dont believe in criminalising it

Sorry Vicky :( It's just as this is under serious debate, it might be worth knowing more about what we are debating I suppose. Below is the second news article, this time on the origin of Fox Hunting and the treayment of the animals raised for Veal.
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Link to news article

Fox-hunting and the Ban

The Rise of Fox-hunting

Foxes have been hunted, for their furs, for hundreds of years. They were regarded as vermin, and usually caught by being dug out of the ground, by men with terriers. It was only in the late 17th century that the fox began to be seen as an animal worth hunting for sport.

The reason for the rise of fox-hunting was the decline in the number of deer, as a result of the clearing of woodland for farming. Hunters who had previously chased deer now looked to hares and foxes to provide their sport. In the 17th century, hunting dogs were bred for their skill in following a puzzling scent over a great distance. This was vital in tracking a hare, which uses trickery to escape pursuit, often running in rings and doubling back on itself. Despite its reputation for cunning, the fox relies on speed. It could easily outrun any dogs. So early fox hunts would often last from dawn until nightfall, and end with the fox escaping.

Father of fox-hunting

In 1753, an 18-year-old country gentleman called Hugo Meynell (which rhymes with "kennel") began to hunt foxes on his estate, Quorn, in Leicester. Meynell was the first person to breed dogs for speed and stamina as well as scent. The speed of his dogs gave a new excitement to hunting foxes. It was also now possible to begin a hunt later in the morning, making it attractive to young noblemen who kept late nights. It was Meynell, a well-known figure in London society, who made fox-hunting fashionable.


By 1800, fox-hunting was supported by most of the great landed aristocratic families, who kept their own packs of hounds. In country towns, local businessmen, lawyers and shopkeepers also joined together to form hunts, clubbing together to fund "subscription packs". Hunt clubs were set up, which became the centre of social life in the countryside. The idea developed that hunting was a unifying force, bringing the whole rural community together in a shared activity.


Melton Mowbray

The Leicester town of Melton Mowbray sits at the junction of three hunts, the Quorn, Cottesmore and Belvoir. This made it attractive to young male aristocrats, who would spend the whole hunting season in the town. Meltonians, as they became known, were devoted to hard riding, and would hunt six days a week throughout the winter months. In the evenings they relaxed with cockfighting, dogfighting, gambling and drinking. During one drunken night in Melton in 1837, the Marquess of Waterford and his friends poured red paint over the local nightwatchmen and then painted the walls of the town. This is the origin of the phrase "painting the town red".


Fox supply

The growing popularity of hunting led to problems ensuring a supply of foxes. In the early 19th century, foxes were imported from the continent, mainly from France and Holland. Landowners also planted artificial coverts - brushy areas for the foxes to live in. It became socially unacceptable for farmers to trap or shoot foxes - an act known as "vulpicide". There was a country saying: "Better kill a man than a fox".


City people go hunting

The spread of the railways in the 1840s transformed fox-hunting. A Londoner could now catch the 8.05 train to Brockenhurst in the New Forest, with his horse in a box, and get there in time for the day's meet. Between the 1840s and 1870s, the number of people hunting foxes increased tenfold. Women also began to hunt, riding side-saddle in thick skirts. For the first time, the sport attracted large numbers of people with little connection with the countryside where they hunted.


The increasing numbers of hunters caused problems for farmers, who complained of the damage caused by riders to their crops and fences. Tensions worsened in the 1870s, during the agricultural depression, caused by an influx of cheap foreign grain. Farmers began to claim compensation for damage caused by hunts, and there was an increase in vulpicide. In 1888, a Worcestershire farmer shouted at a hunter who was trampling his corn. When the hunter used his whip on the farmer, the latter put advertisements in the local papers: "Wanted, dead foxes, must be out of the Worcestershire Hunt, shot, poisoned, or trapped, price given, £1 dog foxes, 30 shillings vixens."


For the first time, people living in the countryside were questioning the basic ideals of hunting, and its place in rural society.
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Link to news article - (photos on linked page)

Veal : A Cruel Meal

Photo in link - A calf lies dead in the slatted stall in which it stood for all of its life, with
no mother, sunlight or decent food. This is the fate of a calf raised for veal.

The veal calf industry is one of the most reprehensible of all the kinds of intensive animal agriculture. Veal calves are a by-product of the dairy industry; they are "manufactured" by "milk machines" - dairy cows. Female calves are raised to be dairy cows: They are confined and fed synthetic hormones to increase growth and production and antibiotics to keep them alive in their unhealthy, unnatural environments. They are artificially inseminated and, after giving birth, are milked for several years until their production levels drop, then they are slaughtered.

Male calves are taken from their mothers shortly after birth. Some are slaughtered soon after birth for "bob veal." Others are raised in "open pens," a kind of minimum security prison, and even then they are sometimes chained. Most are destined for the veal crate.

Solitary Confinement

The veal crate is a wooden restraining device that is the veal calf's permanent home. It is so small (22" x 54") that the calves cannot turn around or even lie down and stretch and is the ultimate in high-profit, confinement animal agriculture.(1) Designed to prevent movement (exercise), the crate does its job of atrophying the calves' muscles, thus producing tender "gourmet" veal.

"Feeding" Time

The calves are generally fed a milk substitute intentionally lacking in iron and other essential nutrients. This diet keeps the animals anemic and creates the pale pink or white color desired in the finished product. Craving iron, the calves lick urine-saturated slats and any metallic parts of their stalls. Farmers also withhold water from the animals, who, always thirsty, are driven to drink a large quantity of the high-fat liquid feed.

Because of such extremely unhealthy living conditions and restricted diets, calves are susceptible to a long list of diseases, including chronic pneumonia and "scours," or constant diarrhea. Consequently, they must be given massive doses of antibiotics and other drugs just to keep them alive. (The antibiotics are passed on to consumers in the meat.) The calves often suffer from wounds caused by the constant rubbing against the crates.

A Fate Worse Than Death

About 14 weeks after their birth, the calves are slaughtered. The quality of this "food," laden with chemicals, lacking in fiber and other nutrients, diseased and processed, is another matter. The real issue is the calves' experience. During their brief lives, they never see the sun or touch the Earth. They never see or taste the grass. Their anemic bodies crave proper sustenance. Their muscles ache for freedom and exercise. They long for maternal care. They are kept in darkness except to be fed two to three times a day for 20 minutes. The calves have committed no crime, yet have been sentenced to a fate comparable to any Nazi concentration camp.

Photo in Link - veal calves

What You Can Do

To help stop veal calf abuses, don't buy or eat veal, and tell friends, relatives, and neighbors why. Tell restaurant managers about veal cruelties and ask them to remove veal from their menus. Also, don't buy or eat dairy products, because of the dairy industry's role in veal production. Ask your state legislators to sponsor bills that would prohibit the use of veal crates.

44.44% for Fox Hunting? You closet public schoolboys.

*realises he misunderstood the question*

Oh right, vivisection by far. Haven't you ever seen Plague Dogs?