Is the Union Jack slowly becoming a symbol for racism/xenophobia?
 

I used to like the Union Jack as a flag, but I've started to notice it's repeated use in Xenophobic quarters like the EDL and BNP, as well as in videos like this


Is the flag's message slowly changing?

It's always been used by the BNP ever since I can remember I don't think it's a new thing

From a foreigner's point of view, wearing clothes with the Union Flag on it means you like rock/indie/punk or you're a teen who thinks smoking, wearing skinny jeans and getting drunk almost everyday makes you look cool.

I wish the connotations of the flag were the same here, all I can think of when I see it is "BNP" :/ which is a shame as it's supposed to show the union of 4 different countries (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland) rather than hatred of other nations.

Unfortunately, as a Brit myself: whilst I agree with the above: I do find it's the latter as well as the thuggish, racist type. Stereotypical view? Absolutely but unfortunately: that's often the case.

It's actually the one thing I hate seeing someone abroad wearing - clothes with their countries flag on it - the only exception being when they're a football game on and their supporting the team - but I loathe seeing them being worn as everyday clothing.

No thats just a way of getting your attention.


Our flag is not there Property.

The Union Flag is my national flag and I will not allow it to be hijacked by racists. I'd like to see it flown at every opportunity which I think would allow it to take it back from people like the BNP.

Something that gets me down a bit is the number of times I see the flag flown upside down. I'm sure people wouldn't be pleased if the Stars and Stripes was flown upside down, but hardly anyone notices when the Union Flag is upside down.

You're correct, it isn't their property. It's the correlation though that brings down all that the flag represents. It really hacks me off as these same ones are the very ones who drink, eat and cloth, and entertain themselves with products made from all over the world, by the very people they claim to loathe.

Their hypocrisy is surreal.

Thats Your Hang Up.

Good point - flying the flag should be more commonplace - as well as the point about it being flown upside down, with more than just a few not even being aware of it.

It seems to be a problem with the working class and inner city areas. I bet the people who live in the coutryside and the middle and upper classes don't give it a thought at all. Then again they probably don't read The Daily Mail...

Yeah it does seem to be becoming mainly associated with far right groups tbh, but then that doesn't really surprise me because I think there's a fine line between Patriotism and Nationalism. I wouldn't say it's something unique to Britain either, I tend to associate the American flag with Tea Party and Right Wing types as well

just like the BNP using the union jack, the Spanish flag is also seen by many Spaniards in the same way. The difference being that Franco actually won in Spain, and so his leanings are far more dangerous and not on the fringes of society like the BNP.

I think it's quite common for many countries national flags to be used by various interest groups for propanganda reasons.

Racism and bigotry isn't exclusive to the working class and inner city areas. If you believe it is, then you aren't as smart as I usually give you credit for.

Where did I mention racism and bigotry :conf:

That's not what I was on about

No its just that anybody that isnt in the BNP or EDL havent got the guts to put up the flag because they are scared of offending foreigners alot of the time,thats how it worked when I lived in Aston anyway.

Oh forgive me, I excluded the word Xenophobia....

Unless of course, none of that was what you were 'on about'.....

Nope, you clearly didn't get what I meant :)

There's your quote above.

Now if it wasn't regarding racism and xenophobia (which is what the thread is about, and the ignorant people who show it), then what are you on about.

I'd imagine it was regarding the Union Jack actually, seeing as that is what the thread is about

Still looks like a few lines on a blue background to me :shrug:

Why do racists always look like agressive chavs?

See the full title of the thread...

I'm quite sure InOne is able to answer more specifically what I asked.

if you mean the flag and how it is flown (ie inverted)....



Correct
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ingdom.svg.png



Incorrect
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...versed.svg.png

It's about how different classes portray the flag.

Are you inferring that the higher up the social classes, that they fly flags only out of patriotism and that very few may indeed be many as equally guilty of being as racist/xenophic as those lower classes, who shout about it.


I don't believe that xenophobia is limited to social class - at all.

There are racists in all walks of life. But I think people who don't live in multicultural areas probably more likely to be less racist, as they have not experienced it, and still live in a genereally British populated part of Britain.

You pulled me up earlier for mentioning racism in relation to your original comment in blue above, telling me that was not what you were on about.

Are you now are saying it is what you were on about - given your comment above?

Oh God, Pyramid going crazy with the quotes again

Yeah I'm dizzy lol

I wouldn't need to if people actually stuck to what they said they meant.

Maybe stop twisting yourself in circles then.

You mentioned racism in your reply, that is why I mentioned it, we'd moved on from that little bit, you should keep up.

Now do you actually have a point or are you just going to keep try catching me out with wording? Because that does get rather boring indeed.

:joker:

It's clear that you were refererring to racism and bigotry (despite making out as though you weren't).... - just clearing that little matter up.

Love the way mods come into a serious debates thread - to make light of it. Kinda defeats the purpose of having a serious debate section of the forum, does it not.

Nope

Wrong.

Next...

You can hardly tell the difference.

It's incredibly easy to tell the difference.

I thought that too, sheer pedantry