E-cigarettes face curb in public places in Wales
 

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/image...6_awqc158w.jpg


Wales could be the first part of the UK to ban the use of electronic cigarettes in enclosed public places.
Ministers say they are responding to concern that the devices - which can contain nicotine - normalise smoking and undermine the smoking ban.
A minimum alcohol price of 50p per unit is also proposed in a white paper of ideas for public health legislation.
Health Minister Mark Drakeford said the aim was to address some of the nation's major public health challenges.

But as part of what it calls a radical new law to improve public health, the Welsh government is now turning its attention from tobacco to electronic cigarettes.
Sales of e-cigarettes have boomed in recent years - supporters claim they're much safer than ordinary cigarettes and can help some people quit.
Certain pubs, cafes and the Millennium Stadium in Cardiff have already banned e-cigs.
The Welsh government wants to restrict their use only to places where you can legally smoke tobacco - for example outside or in smoking shelters.
Ministers claims e-cigarettes give the impression that smoking in public is normal and acceptable. It also argues that children could be tempted to try them, which could lead to nicotine addiction and be a gateway to smoking.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-26837682

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This Chap has no evidence to support his theories but is willing to go ahead with a ban based on a whim?

:nono:

They don't like the fact that E-ciggies are taking over from normal ones and eating into their tax profits more like

There is growing evidence to suggest tobacco companies are now using E-cigarettes to entice younger people into smoking and/or nicotine addiction.

these E-Cigarettes are now marketed to younger smokers with special e-Cigs that are flavoured ie Strawberry, Lemon,mint etc..

This smacks of using a device designed to help people give up smoking to actually attract people into smoking.

these devices should be heavily taxed and all laws relating to normal cigarettes should apply to these also.

They really need to stop this nonsense . i got told of for smoking one , your not allowed to smoke put it out lol. my response was ok and i put it in my eye and went there you go.
they looked at me like i was crazy. and i said they are not reallllllllll . they still didn't get it.

e cigs are great. no one should complain. they dont want people smoking well fine. there is the solution , you should be able to smoke them everywhere. theres no ash no heat no fire no real smoke. perfect for the casual smokers who only smoke when they go out . but again some killjoy sad sack twat with a power complex and a IQ of 50 will come and stop it.
The whole idea is to stop people smoking harmful cigs e cigs are apperently not harmful well if they stop the solution whats the point.

These devices should be used only as a temporary aid to help people quit smoking. Not to be used as an alternative to smoking that's just plain stupid.

I dont think there is any evidence to support that, only anecdotal evidence.

I cant see a kid who is using an e-cig moving onto a cig - why would they?

They can smoke an e-cig with no chance of a parent catching them, no stink on their breath, much much cheaper, no harmful effect to their body, etc etc

its not at all. if you smoke you can switch to these which is better for your health and your wallet , give up is optional .
if your a casual smoker you can smoke these instead of harmful ones which is the whole point of selling them.

i know i would rather the casual smokers smoke these than the real ones. and the kids. , e cigs are about health everything else shouldn't matter

Its no different than drinking coffee for the caffeine

I dont see people saying "ooh if you start injecting insulin for diabetes next thing you will be using heroin"

or chastising kids for drinking irn bru as it will lead them onto whisky as its similar in terms of a drink and colour

Thus speaks the unconvincing arguments from two smokers.......prepared to defend their Nicotine addiction to the end

pretty much sums up the utter failure that is the welsh government, the scottish govt has made the scots much richer, the welsh one possibly due to lack of the same powers but more to do with pack of ambition, vision etc has made wales much much much poorer.
wont yet another nimby pimby nanny state law, ust force eciggers to smoke with real smokers in smokers rooms and inhale real smoke? additionally these eciggers may well end up thinking whats the point of ecig if i cant smoke it where i like and go back to smoking
unless the ecig is proved to be dangerous, this law is mindless. they dont blow out smoke so were all better off and its far better for smokers as theres no tobacco and no secondary smoke and it seems to be weening smokers off the fags.

:conf:

which 2 smokers?

Exactly this

They are ****ting themselves that e-cigs are helping so many people to stop smoking

I said this ages ago, that this would happen. Won't be long before e-cig users are looked down on as much as smokers and made to stand outside too, and heavily taxed ;)

The E cigg is growing
all over the place.

Can Wales stop the cafes?

I suspect this is the whole point.

health is the most important thing. whether someone smokes or not is not a issue.

The irony and sheer damned ignorance here is amazing. Ban something infinitely less dangerous than alcohol while selling alcohol.

I do reckon e-cigs are a bit dodgy, wouldn't surprise me if in a few years they aren't considered to be that effective at all

I find the way they're marketed a bit weird as well, always surprises me that this is an e-cig advert

Nah, I'm a non-smoker and I don't see the issue. I'm not a fan of "bans", of anything, I believe in people having the right to choose what they do and don't do with their own bodies. The argument behind the smoking ban was ALWAYS that passive smoke affects non-smokers and that it's not fair for them to have to breathe it. There is no passive smoking issue with e-cigs, therefore, people should be allowed to use them if they want to use them. It's their choice. They also don't carry anywhere near the personal risks that traditional cigarettes cause, as the majority of the carcinogenic effect of "real cigarettes" is in the tar they contain, not the nicotine itself, therefore if someone DOES want to casually smoke - for example, if they just enjoy the occasional nicotine high on a night out - they're much better off getting that from an electronic cigarette than from a real one.

one guy i know complains there is a type of smoke which he says stinks and is almost as bad as the smoke
i cant say ive noticed that

I smell a winning post

I don't think they're the 'miracle' alternative to smoking either, as yet the long term effects are unknown.
I'm wary too that they're seen as trendy, Leeds hipsters love their new 'accessory' anyway from what I've seen.

'Other papers concentrate on the social effects of introducing a highly addictive drug to a new audience. The Journal of Adolescent Health identified e-cigarette ad campaigns that disproportionately appeal to a younger market, including "celebrity endorsements, trendy/fashionable imagery, and fruit, candy, and alcohol flavors".

A comparison can be drawn with alcopops, and there are concerns that awareness of e-cigarettes is far greater among adolescents than among the general population. Instead of being an opportunity for current smokers to step down to something less harmful, they could be a gateway into smoking for young people who would not otherwise try cigarettes.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...haling-unknown

"they could be a gateway into smoking for young people who would not otherwise try cigarettes."

or they could not


Its pointless making assumptions about things like this unless you have hard evidence to support it.

They could and probably will reduce teenage smoking drastically

again - lets see any evidence to support this

the welsh government are atalinists, they want to control everything with little evidence to support their decisions.....theyhate the nasty english media for daring to ask difficult questions and exposing the endless nhs cover ups in wales too.....the welsh government recently stopped ann clwyd from speaking at their cardiff bay chamber. shame on them. IF they care about health that much theyd welcome open press , difficult questions and transparency to improve the nhs disasters

I think it's a breach of Human Rights. I can understand people not being allowed to smoke in public places, but this isn't "smoking".

You're right, I don't think any evidence exists.

I've been around e-cigs before and there really isn't a very noticeable smell at all and it isn't smoke either and doesn't hang around and stick to you like smoke does

Is it only you allowed to make assumptions then? That article is from last year so this is hardly new info that the youth are the ones who have taken to ecigs. Is it due to tax, the cigarette industry trying to instill fear that these are as corruptive, or is medical evidence mounting that suggests the health benefits are not as great as first thought?

I'm a firm believer in 'if something looks too good to be true it is' so I say it's a mix of all three, but like you say the evidence atm is 'anecdotal'.

So what is this debate about, that getting ones nicotine hit from E-Cigs is OK but from normal Cigs very unhealthy.

so Nicotine addiction is OK as long as it does not carry quite so many obvious health risks that normal Cigs carry.

So rather than using these devices to try and wean everybody off Cigarettes the govt instead wants to allow these E-Cigs which are healthier, allow them indoors so more people can use them, allow advertising to promote them and hike up the tax on them to more or less the same levels as normal cigarettes.

smacks of Hypocrisy if you ask me, like having your cake, eating it and losing weight.

"They could and probably will reduce teenage smoking drastically

again - lets see any evidence to support this"

no i made an assumption but then asked for evidence to show it can work both ways

i would rather kids smoke e cigs than real ones. i dont think you can get addicted to e cigs its nowhere near as potent as real ones. but thats just my view on that.

as for people smoking e cigs in public places will entice others to smoke. well we have been smoking in public since time began . whats worst someone smoking a e cig in public or some lard arse scoffing a burger in public. i know which one is more harmful and its not the cig even a real one.

there is no tobacco in ecigs which is the main harmful ingredient so clearly its infinitely preferrable. as for the smoke I agree Ive not noticed any stinky smoke and it contains no tobacco either. welsh government was wrong on this one imo

There is evidence but you've dismissed it as 'anecdotal', how many studies over what period of time do you want?

One issue not raised is waste, what is the waste product of ecigs,
cig butts are a problem but how do you dispose of dead ecig cartridges and what chemicals do they contain that will end up in landfill?

My dads really stinks..I have noticed it more since I have been pregnant. Its a really sickly sweet smell..its a caramel flavour vapour.

That said, we cant ban everything that smells a bit bad to some people. Or loads of people wouldnt be allowed out of the house full stop. I find the smell of BO more offputting than a smell of caramel for a few seconds to be quite honest..

Oh I've not come across caramel ones, just normal and menthol

Haha, that reminds me of a mate from school who used to burn cannabis scented joss sticks so her mum didn't question the smell of her cannabis :joker: