Avery/Dassey Discussion Thread (Contains spoilers from Making a Murderer) Brendans Conviction Overturned
 

Thought we could have a thread in here discussing the case at the centre of the Making a Murderer documentary and all the theories surrounding it.

So if you've watched do you think Steven and Brendan are guilty?

Having watched the series and read lots of information that's freely available online I am pretty certain that they are both innocent and were framed (rather obviously IMO) by the Manitowoc County Police Department.

Links to the online transcripts of the court cases etc..

Dassey transcripts and interrogations

http://stevenaveryproject.com/dassey-files/

Avery transcripts and interrogations

http://stevenaveryproject.com/avery-...l-transcripts/

Under the Avery Transcripts it has 50 or so official crime scene photos.

They're both guilty.

(From what I've seen so far)

So do you have any reasons why you think that?

I'm just quite shocked that anyone could watch the entire series and not come away at the end thinking that theres some highly suspicious stuff going on there.

I know some say it was all one sided but all of the information is available online for anyone to read.

Also Kathleen Zellner has now taken charge of Steven's appeals and she is well known for taking on wrongful conviction and exoneration cases, I just can't see her getting involved if she had any doubts at all that they werent guilty.

I just can't get over that her remains were in his firepit. I'm sorry.

Fair enough :laugh:

My daughter was telling me about this, she thinks they were set up to get out of paying the compensation for the wrongful conviction.

It's so ****ed up. He was to be paid a huge amount and then he goes and murders someone. No way would anyone do that. All the evidence is too tampered with or non existent for my liking too. Not to mention the juror saying he feared for his life.

But he seems a highly unbalanced individual to me. I mean, granted he's not going to be the most stable of people spending that long in prison for something he didn't do.

But I don't think he's entirely innocent. But the corruption amongst the police/government is shocking.

There is no way either of them should have been convicted looking at just the evidence and the Trial. There is something about Steven though.... Poor Brendan was the true travesty though. Poor kid.

Obviously not guilty, I think the most overwhelming thing for me was that his blood was found in her car, (presumably) from the cut on his finger, but there were no fingerprints, plus her body had been put in the back of her own car, which makes NO sense

But what about the fact that that cop Colburn rang in the missing car to dispatch 2 days before the car was actually found on Steve Averys property? And the fire expert guy saying it was likely the burned remains had been moved to the pit closest to Steves home?

The cops had motive to pin it on Steve since they were just about to get sued for millions plus have their reputations left in tatters, it's not like they didn't have form for pinning something on him, they were by no means ethical cops

Plus according to the story Brendan told, they raped and cut Theresas throat in Steves bedroom but not a single piece of blood, skin, hair, body fluids were found in there

Meant to post this here instead of the other thread. This theory makes so much sense :

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2016/0...n_9048104.html

Jeez all these theories sound pretty plausible actually :laugh:

http://www.tv.com/shows/making-a-mur...-145382448447/

I have so got to watch this.

You really need to DR

I've been obsessed since watching it.

All of the case files are available to read online, the whole thing.

There's a huge protest in Manitowoc today too to get some media attention about the dodgy evidence.

Even if you do think they are guilty, no one can deny that they deserve a new fair trial.

Also the entire 4 hours of brendans interviews as well as the first one when him and his brother were pulled over coming back from the families cabin is also online.

He always sticks to the same story about coming home from school, playing playstation etc, until they start pressuring him.

And how can they have found one guilty saying she was murdered in the garage and the other saying she was murdered in the bedroom, what the **** is that all about

yeah by the same lawyer too, crazy. Seems it was right that Kratz was a sleaze bucket as well after seeing what happened to him afterwards

Yeah it's hilarious, you slit someone's throat there is going to be blood EVERYWHERE and on a matress/duvet/carpet it's gonna be impossible to clean but nothing found at all and they still managed to be convicted :umm2:

So for the people who think Steve is innocent, who do you think actually did it?

The brother or the ex, they both looked really shifty the first time you see them

Teresas brother?

I think it might have been Scott Tadych but the ex hacking into her phone was strange especially when they could tell some messages had been deleted

Yeah I really think this is it :

Theory #1: Scott Tadych (Avery’s brother-in-law) and Bobby Dassey (Avery’s nephew and Brendan Dassey’s brother) killed Halbach (purposefully or accidentally) and framed Avery for the crime … and then sat back and watched as the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department separately did the same.

Evidence: The amount of evidence found on the Avery property — including Halbach’s remains and her car – has led many to surmise that if Steven Avery and Brendan Dassey are innocent, the real killer would still likely be someone who had similar access and opportunity, both to Halbach herself and the Avery property. A number of other Avery family members also lived on the property at the time, including Tadych, Janda and all four of the Dassey boys. It was Janda’s car that Halbach came to photograph for Auto Trader magazine, and Tadych more than likely was privy to her visit. Bobby Dassey testified to seeing Halbach taking pictures of his mother’s car, and both men had access to the various locations where evidence was found. Neither was fingerprinted or submitted DNA, and the trailer where they lived was not searched, so there’s no way of knowing if there was evidence linking them to Halbach’s murder, because they were not investigated.

Other Evidence: Bobby is believed to be Tadych’s accomplice in this theory, based on the fact that the pair conveniently alibi each other for the time of the murder. Both claimed to have gone hunting that afternoon/evening, but not together, and said they passed each other on the highway during the window of time Halbach is believed to have been killed – but there are no other witnesses to offer further corroboration.

Tadych, meanwhile, has a long history of being violent towards women, and showed a strange level of enthusiasm for his brother-in-law’s conviction (he called it “the best thing in the world ever”) despite knowing his step son, Brendan, was facing similar charges. Meanwhile, Bobby Dassey’s testimony at trial had notable inconsistencies and misleading statements, and an unrelated examination the same week as the murder reportedly revealed that Bobby had scratches on his back. Additionally, shortly after Halbach’s death, a coworker of Tadych’s claimed that he was trying to sell a .22 rifle, the same as the gun believed to be the murder weapon, which he said belonged “to one of the Dassey boys.”

Sorry about all the posts, I'm a bit obsessed with it now too :laugh: I was reading an article about it and this point is apt I think

the real story is about our messed up legal system and how it deprives the socioeconomically disadvantaged and the uneducated of the presumption of innocence.

So true, the state didn't have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was guilty, it was down to his Lawyers to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was innocent

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movies...nt-present.php

Yeah I agree with this. Right from the episode where they were interviewing during the search and the brother comes out with something about the grieving process and they hadn't found a body or nothing yet :umm2:

Plus the scratches all over the exs hands and them 'guessing' the voucemail passwords

Ohhh now I'm reading that article more closely and this guy thinks he's guilty (although some of the things he's saying aren't correct) Like he said that certain things were left out of the docuseries when they actually hadn't been (not all of them anyway)

That could be because of, if that theory about them having found the car earlier is true, that they were hiding something but not that they'd killed her?

Now this guy nearly has me convinced Steven Avery is guilty :think:

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movies...nt-present.php

I'm not convinced either way about Avery (which by the rules of innocent until proven guilty, I guess means that I don't think he should be in jail) however the treatment of Brendan Dassey by the authorities as seen in the documentary, is downright ****ing criminal in itself. From the looks of it, Brendan is most probably on the autistic spectrum, and also has a very low IQ on top of that. On several occasions, they interrogate him for several HOURS, with a tonne of suggestion and leading questions, and they get him overwhelmed to the point that he's completely broken and will say anything. Probably even starts to believe it. As soon as they leave him alone for a while, he gets his clarity back and goes back to saying that it didn't happen (which it clearly didn't, the statement they got out of him was all over the place and made little sense, and was missing a tonne of key details that there's no way he would have forgotten).

The way they talk to him, belittle him, get frustrated with him and shout at him for not being able to explain himself clearly... It's all an absolutely gargantuan abuse of a clearly very vulnerable individual. He should never have been questioned AT ALL without mental health / educational support people present who would understand his vulnerable state and how easily lead into saying whatever they wanted he would be after hours of relentless questioning.

Avery/Dassey Discussion Thread (Contains spoilers from Making a Murderer)
 

Re Brendan also TS, that lawyer he had behaved deplorably and the case should have been thrown out for that alone and he should have been disbarred.

..I watched the first 2 episodes of this a few weeks ago..(I think it was you Josy who mentioned it somewhere else so I thought that I'd take a look, but as usual, got distracted, so didn't get back to it...I did find it absorbing though, so will start watching again..)...

..but I only got to Teresa's remains being found so am in the vein of thought as you iceman/he's innocent, the whole timeline of these things happening within days, when it looked like he would get a huge payout/and the 'coincidence', I mean why would he do it, so suspicious...it wasn't just the payout/money though for those in the police force involved and those in the justice system, it was also the corruption involved and things that could have been potentially revealed, how much deeper it may have run and his case being just one example but an example of further investigations into other stuff, perhaps..?...so yeah, all too convenient and suspicious, so innocent is my first thought..but then, on the flipside...?...was he really fooling everyone into thinking it was about the compensation and people being held accountable but other than that, he was getting his life together etc...or did it all run much deeper than that and he also knew the 'timeline' was perfect for him to do this because of being able to say, oh this is all happening again and you all know these people are corrupt ...so assuming he would not be found guilty..that, that would be the 'influence'...that he had been planning the 'timeline' and right time for 12 months for more of an 'ultimate revenge'/a much deeper 'revenge'....or maybe not planning even but more seeing that he could do this and this time, be guilty but proven innocent....anyways, so I'm nowhere near really having any fixed thoughts yet..:laugh:..and Duncan/that's his brother then..?..I have a way to catch up with you guys and haven't read any online stuff yet either but I will try to make an effort to get back to this as there is obviously so much more....


..on a side-line thing, I do love how American documentaries can put a case and make you absolutely and totally believe something..and then do a flip of that and make you absolutely and totally believe the opposite, I think the USA documentaries are particularly excellent at that...

..see, this is what I mean...I haven't clicked on the link or read it but I find USA documentaries so brilliant because 'absolutely convinced now' with one and then 'absolutely convinced now with another'...intriguing and confusing/conflicting and presented either to be just as plausible...I'll read the online stuff and links after I have finished the series....

The documentary seemed to leave out some things that gave him a motive and glossed over things that we should have taken a bit more notice of imo, like they mention he threw a cat on a fire but they never said he poured petrol on it first, also before the rape case he was going to be charged with running a woman off the road, pulling a gun on her and (this part wasn't mentioned in The documentary) threatening to rape her, apparently he would have got around 6 years in prison for that. The documentary almost made you feel like that woman was to blame for him doing that to her because he said she said some things about him behind his back.


They also never showed the part of Brendan's phone call to his mom where he tells her that Steven had abused him numerous times.

It also never tells us that Teresa had asked her boss not to send her to Stevens place anymore cos he freaked her out or that he'd specifically asked for her that day or that he'd phoned her 3 times that day, twice hiding his number from her

Nimah that part about the woman having a gun pulled on her was right at the start of the documentary it was his cousin and she was married to the head of the sherrifs department that's what is believed to be the cause of the sherrifs officers disliking him before thwy accusedbhim of the rape the first time.

The stuff about Theresa asking not to be sent there again was proven to be false (his first lawyers have spoken about this online and said he got out of his swimming pool and wrapped a towel round him one if the times she visited) her co worker testified saying this and that was left out the documentary too.

Brendans mum also said the stuff about brendan being abused was rubbish. And if you think about it it doesn't add up, brendan was only just turned 16 when the murder happened and steven had served 18 years in prison so when would the abuse have taken place?

Yes I know who the woman was Josy but I'm quite annoyed with myself for not taking it more serious at the time, I mean what kind of a nut job runs a woman off the road and pulls a gun on her because he thinks she's saying stuff about him?

He'd been out of jail a couple of years before the murder happened

I don't know, I just feel a bit manipulated by the documentary