Traditional or 21st-century masculinity?
 

From simple suit and bow tie to pink shirts and borrowing your girlfriend’s hair straighteners, the concept of masculinity has obviously changed a great deal over time and, while some of it’s obviously for the better, (e.g., cold and distant fathers of the past compared with the warm and available dads of nowadays) how much are you in favour of these changes when it comes to other stuff? Would you still hold a door open for a lady or would that make you seem all soft and coy? Is the “stiff upper lip” principle still relevant to you (as a male) these days or do you welcome being able to talk about your feelings more?

Polite people hold doors open for other people, it's shouldn't be a gender thing imo, I often hold doors open for others. Honestly, people are just people, we're all individuals and there shouldn't be a set of guidelines for how people should behave based on their gender.

Yeah, I was using the door analogy as an example (probably not the best one) but I agree.

men and women are different and its silly to pretend they are not

No son of mine would be wearing pink, make-up or using fecking hair straighteners:fist:

not that there is anything wrong with being gay :nono:


I strive to be a gentleman to ladies the way I was brought up

That's the thing, though. Lads on shows like Geordie Shore and TOWIE are usually very flamboyant when it comes to dress and they're generally portrayed as alpha males.

The idea that a man wearing pink (in the right way) makes him gay is ridiculously outdated and old hat. I think you need to get with the times.

He can't help it, he's old and stuck in his way :hehe:

:clap1: Yes preach it Niamh!!

lads on GS and Towie? :laugh2:


what kind of reference point areyou working with here?


I would suggest you need to "get with the times" and cast your net a tad further than a dirty puddle and aim for the ocean...

ah yes, i forgot that wearing pink and using straighteners turned boys gay. I'll make sure I remind my friends not to do that.

:nono: neem some modern doors can be very heavy, you should get gav to help you

Firstly, sorry to hear that you wouldn't allow your son to want to be himself. Second of all, pink or make-up being associated with femininity is stupid in itself. Did you know that if we go back in time pink was a male color and blue was a female color? It means nothing. Finally, I don't see how any of the points you made has anything to do with being gay. It's just a case of you stereotyping and just suggesting your ignorance about the situation. This is not a dig at you but at your opinion in this post.

i dont think it can turn them chaos but it could be the slippery slope, look at marsh, he was straight until he came on tibb and now look at him


:omgno:

Crap Caitlin I must be straight then!!! I don't do any of the things the poster mentioned above :shocked::shocked:

and you like lesbians too!!! you are straight Raph, you better accept it!!!!!!!!!

Yess!! Fill me into a concisely describable box, that's how humans work!!!!

You straight white female you :fist:

yes and if my son wanted to wear a SS uniform or go to school naked i would also advise him not to do that

did you know that an SS uniform was seen as very smart by most people in the UK and the world

Its not about being himself its just advising him not to look like a twat

pink is a girls colour and if he wore a pink jumper to school he would be picked on, fact, just like if he wore a t shirt saying "i love Britney Spears" or "I am fierce and love scented candles"


:rolleyes:

It's a fact that younger males are more into grooming now, though. I'm guessing you're a conservative type of person but you're out-of-touch if you seriously think that young men who use hair straighteners or wear certain types of pink shirts are seen as gay. Times have changed.

I respect the fact that you have very traditional conservative views but I also feel sorry and sad that you feel this way, it's such a narrow view of this world. You're a victim of social structures.

i am not sure how boys can use hair straighteners with very short hair as all boys should have?:shrug:

YOu feel sorry that I dont want my son to go school either naked or dressed like an SS officer?


er


ok

I'm hardly talking about little boys though am I.

It takes a certain type of person to pull off a certain type of look, obviously, but I think you'll find that man buns are one of the most popular male hairstyles of this decade. Likewise, I doubt hardcore metal heads or wrestlers are seen as soft or gay. I'm not sure I can take you seriously if you genuinely think that having hair that isn't very short is a sign of femininity.

Your ignorance is astounding.

For kids, yeah. Bright colours are becoming more and more common in younger men these days, including pink. Fact.

I don't think things like how someone dresses and acts affects how masculine someone is because they're just social constructs, they don't have anything to do with the natural differences between men and women. They never really have though. Traditionally, men were the bread winners so they dressed a certain way perhaps to demonstrate their wealth/social status? Whereas now that isn't something that's relevant for most people. Nothing's changed in terms of biological masculinity, it's just that there's less of a social need for a facade. But I suppose someones attitude on it probably depends on how much they rely on appearance and facade in judging another person, as well as how much importance they place on their desire to be judged by other people as being masculine, instead of just being themselves. Most of us are probably affected by traditional roles to an extend though. I reckon I hold doors open for women more often than I do for men without really thinking about it just because that's how my mum brought me up. So there are probably a whole load of examples like that where it's a behaviour that's deemed as 'masculine' but the reasons for having that behaviour don't actually have anything to do with your own perception of masculinity, rather it's just something that you've been conditioned to do. I think it's definitely a good thing though that gender roles are changing, it just means that as time goes on people will feel less of a need to put on an act in order to conform (and it's probably the 'type' of kids who wear pink "I love Britney" t-shirts without caring how people are going to react who are the trailblazers of that change).

But what if your son did? How would you react/deal with it? Surely he should be able to present himself the way he wants to

my son can experiment with whatever he likes image wise as he gets older....I draw the line at only one thing......he is not allowed to wear a City or Liverpool shirt....the rest is up to him.

If he looked ridiculous, I would of course advise him but if he insisted I would let him do what he wanted - that way, he will learn about his own way. /style etc

I haven't changed a bit.
http://cdn.mamamia.com.au/wp-content...ig-brother.jpg

Traditional to an extent, I don't like the quick fix masculinity of today like taking steroids, living in the gym and drinking protein shakes.

Masculinity and femininity are hard terms to grasp, because it's based completely around stereotypes. But often femininity is used as a negative term in relation to men and masculinity used as a positive, and vice versa. But why are any of these traits bad (or good)?

In relation to the colour pink, I personally don't see anything wrong with babies being colour coordinated. It's hard to tell whether babies are male or female, this would make for easy recognition.

But this shouldn't mean that boys and girls can't alternate colours. Colours don't define who you are. Whether someone actively chooses to wear a certain colour or style, they shouldn't be judged for not being man or woman enough. It's ridiculous.

I see pink as a feminine colour. Society has taught me that. But that doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't be worn by men. I don't have pink clothes because I don't like the colour. I don't like green or yellow either.

Make-up is a product aimed at women. Women are taught to be self-conscious whereas men are not. I don't wear make-up because I've never felt the need to. But if I wanted to wear eye-liner (which I think looks really good on guys) then I would go ahead and do it... maybe.

Pink and make-up are feminine because of social constructs.

The focus is mainly on men because women are more free to express themselves without being judged.

Men shouldn't wear skirts! Well, a kilt is a skirt and that's seen as an incredibly masculine thing to do. I ****ing hate kilts. Not because I don't want to wear a skirt, but because tartan is hideous.

I don't really know what the point of this post is, or what these examples mean. But people should be allowed to express themselves if they want to. They shouldn't be forced to do anything they don't want to. And if someone doesn't express themselves, that's also okay.

I love Wikipedia

But I agree though, Jonathan :clap1:

Some changes have been good, more freedom for women than when I was a child. The right to be openly gay, again very different from my childhood when homosexuality was a crime.
However when it comes to men I find the changes not so good. I preferred it when men were men and didn't fart about with moisterisers, hair bleach and teeth whiteners. I also preferred the days when children usually had just the one father and not a constant stream of 'dads' passing through their lives.

On the flip side to that, dads are allowed to be properly involved with their kids nowadays when in past generations that was the mothers job and they missed out on quite a lot imo

Some of us have no choice but to be a mum and a dad

:fist: