Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 8519444)

so stupid. the cops were giving him every courtesy, and even tried to explain to him a small bag of marijuana was just a misdemeanor.

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 8520937)

It was a just decision although your agenda is rather transparent in this topic. One lawful shooting does not change or lessen the fact that the US has a problem with Police Brutality.

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 8520937)

It was a just decision although your agenda is rather transparent in this topic. One lawful shooting does not change or lessen the fact that the US has a problem with Police Brutality.

Originally Posted by parmnion (Post 8520847)

very poor policing from the outset.

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 8520937)

It was a just decision although your agenda is rather transparent in this topic. One lawful shooting does not change or lessen the fact that the US has a problem with Police Brutality.

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 8521255)

the US also has a real issue with certain cultures in the US that want to kill cops. Who is going to start confronting those toxic thug cultures? oh yea, only the police actually confront them, because the neighbors, the other people in those neighborhoods are scared ****less for good reason.

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 8521284)

and it has a much bigger problems with criminals, punks and hoodlums

Lets hope some pop star sings about that, oh wait there is a whole music sub-culture celebrating it

:facepalm:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 8521293)

So now you're blaming rap music? Have I time travelled back to the 90's somehow? Are you going to start campaigning against Mortal Kombat and Doom since they're obviously ruining the youth of today as well?

One problem is unrelated to the other, you are just desperately trying to justify the fact that you are downplaying the issue because it makes you uncomfortable. The police do not and should not have the power to execute people as a first resort, this isn't ****ing Judge Dredd or Robocop.

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 8521290)

Except that's got nothing to do with the incidents of Police Brutality over the past few years in which the Police have killed unarmed people.

Like I said before, this incident was completely lawful but that doesn't change the fact that Police Brutality is a real and present thing.

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 8521349)

i think my point was well made and obviously you seem to have understood it

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 8521461)

it has everything to do with it, because the police are in a catch-22///

if they don't confront the thugs then they get accused of ignoring the community and not protecting minority communities, and when they do confront the thugs they get accused of targeting certain minorities. they can't win.

damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Originally Posted by bitontheslide (Post 8521661)

I think what is highlighted here is that it becomes news when the US police behave as they should to an event, rather than like a bunch of thugs.

I've said before, the police as an occupation attracts thugs and crooks because it allows them to do what they want without breaking the law. The same has applied many times in the UK police force too, but because carrying guns is not the norm for them, its not quite so final.

The number of people killed by law enforcement in the US this year has reached 1,000 after officers in Oakland, California, shot dead a man who allegedly pointed a replica gun at them.

Authorities said several officers opened fire on the man on Sunday evening when he walked toward them as they towed away cars that had been used to perform so-called “sideshow” stunts in east Oakland. Officers discovered later that the gun was a replica, police said.

“Officers working sideshow approached by subject who pointed firearm in their direction,” the Oakland police department said on Twitter. “Officers fatally shot subject.” A spokeswoman said the department would investigate the shooting itself. The man’s name was not released.

Hundreds of cars had been involved in hours of chaotic sideshow stunts that shut down several intersections in Oakland from late on Saturday into the early hours of Sunday, according to police. One man was arrested and several shots were fired.

The man shot in Oakland became the 1,000th database entry in The Counted, an ongoing investigation by the Guardian to record every fatality caused by police and other law enforcement officers in 2015, to monitor the demographics of the people who died and detail how and why they were killed.

Sunday’s incident was the 883rd fatal shooting by a law enforcement officer so far in 2015, according to the Guardian’s records. Another 47 people died after being shocked with an officer’s Taser, 33 died after being struck by a law enforcement officer’s vehicle, and 36 were killed in custody. Another received a deadly blow to the head during a fight with an officer.

The shooting was also the 183rd death recorded in California, by far the greatest total of any state. Nine states, however, have recorded more deaths per capita, with Oklahoma having the highest rate.
The Counted: the definitive map of US police killings in 2015
The Guardian has created the most detailed map of police killings ever published. Find your hometown and explore the most lethal police departments in America
Read more

The US government publishes no comprehensive record of people killed by law enforcement, even after a series of controversial deaths unleashed a national protest movement and demands from activists and lawmakers alike for better data on the subject.

An analysis of the statistics collected so far found the rate of deaths currently stands at 3.1 per day. This rate has remained relatively steady throughout the year, peaking through the month of March to a daily rate of almost four and dipping to an average of 2.6 through June.

The Counted was launched on 1 June, logging 464 deaths in the year to that point. At that time 102 or 22% of those killed had been unarmed. This proportion has since fallen slightly to 20% or 198 of the total 1,000. In 59 deaths, however, it remains unclear whether the suspect was armed.

As of 1 June, black Americans were more than twice as likely to be unarmed as white Americans when killed by police. At that point 32% of the 135 black people killed by police had been unarmed, compared with 15% of the 234 white people. This disparity has since shrunk, with 26% of the 248 black people and 18% of 490 white people being recorded as unarmed.

Brittany Packnett, a member of Barack Obama’s taskforce on 21st century policing and a founder of the Campaign Zero movement that lobbies to curb the levels of police violence in America, said the milestone should be met with “sadness, but not deep shock”.

“Black folks like me have known for a long time that the police do not always represent safety for us and that an encounter could be deadly,” said Packnett. “But having these statistics that add to our personal stories should continue to move everyone towards wanting to having a part in correcting this.”

Obama’s taskforce, convened after unrest in Ferguson, followed the decision not to prosecute the white officer who shot dead Michael Brown, an unarmed black 18-year-old, and made the collection of more reliable data on the number of police killings in the US one of its central recommendations.
The Counted: people killed by police in the United States – interactive
The Guardian has been counting the people killed by US law enforcement agencies since 2015. Read their stories and contribute to our ongoing, crowdsourced project
Read more

FBI director James Comey said earlier this year that it was “ridiculous and embarrassing” that the Guardian and a separate project by the Washington Post had better information than the federal government about deaths at the hands of law enforcement officers.

The Department of Justice is trialling a new program, which resembles The Counted, to proactively collect data on killings by police. Currently, the FBI records the number of “justifiable homicides” reported to the bureau voluntarily by police departments that choose to participate.

Packnett said that while the government was “still in the beginning stages” of instigating that process, campaigners realised “it’s not enough just to talk about police involved shootings”.

“We have to talk about in custody deaths, we have to talk about non-lethal police violence, we need to talk about particularly vulnerable communities like children and the LGBTQ community,” Packnett said.

“We have to track it all, and we have to track it knowing that stronger, more comprehensive data can better lead us to the place of building solutions.”

Originally Posted by Ammi (Post 8521465)

... know someone/a child who was diagnosed with leukaemia, it was many years ago/he sadly died but his death wasn't because of the cancer, the prognosis for that was positive and very treatable... he died an excruciating death because the person administering his radiation treatment gave him 50 times the prescribed dosage...a complete incompetency of someone, in a profession, if you like..that we all place trust in...would we say that because of that..(..and other incompetence's will have happened to other people and lives lost through those as well..)...that the whole medical profession was incompetent/questionable for the job that they're doing...no, obviously...would we say that this person shouldn't have been held accountable because of the good medical people...if it was your child, LT...who had lost their life because someone in a position to be respected by yourself, had used huge misjudgements, 'had not assessed a situation of dosage properly'... would you think it was ok for that person not to be held accountable/because of all of the good work done in the medical profession by other staff...


..I know trained medical staff don't generally encounter weapons being involved with their jobs/and there's a factor in that as well.. but it's still something that's trained and weapons being involved is police training...misjudgements can happen yes but because life or death is so important, when acts are questionable, then accountability has to be there as well...and yes also, that will involve criticism and possible other things in the system, which include race...but there can't be a 'good police force' if it ignores these things...people will carry on being killed when that may not have been the only option...


..and again, if it was your child and a celebrity 'raised an awareness' of that to a 'captive audience'...would you think that was a bad thing, would you not want awareness raised and appreciate anyone who did that...

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 8521574)

The problem is that you've convinced yourself that it's an issue of hating the police and you're using desperate examples to try to downplay the police brutality angle because you don't have a counter argument for it.

Like I've said before (and you will ignore it like the other times I've said this) It's not about hating the police, it's about holding them responsible when they misuse their power. A lawful shooting incident has no bearing on an Brutality incident and vice versa.

Most police officers are perfectly fine but it's the ones that believe they are Dirty Harry that's the issue and the fact that the system protects them when they should be on trial for murder. Ignoring the problem and denying it exists is a great way of ensuring that things will only get worse.



You're oversimplifying things to suit your point of view.

There's nothing wrong with this incident, the man drew a gun on the police and they acted appropriately. The problem is that LT is trying to say that this one incident overrides the fact that hundreds of innocent people have been executed by police officers over the past few years and they have been protected despite the fact they've murdered people.

They only get accused of Police Brutality when, you know, they actually COMMIT Police Brutality. Nobody will claim that this incident is Police Brutality but a police officer shooting a boy in a park one second after he got out of his patrol car, a unarmed man being choked to death when he posed no threat and a surrendering man being shot in the back of the head gangland style are just a few examples of the top of my head that I can think of when it comes to recent Brutality incidents. There are many more.

It's quite awful that you are ignoring the facts of these incidents to accuse the victims and their families of playing the race card.

Originally Posted by GiRTh (Post 8522238)

Instead of recognizing killing 1000 people in one calendar year is quite alarming and that 102 of those being unarmed is truly disturbing the usual suspect think one good example balances the scale.

Truly vile

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 8522243)

Its not what the thread is about, sorry you cannot even bring yourself to see one positive thing.

smh

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 8522214)

I am sorry but your example is way way too far removed from the debate to consider it

Originally Posted by GiRTh (Post 8522238)

Instead of recognizing killing 1000 people in one calendar year is quite alarming; and that 102 of those being unarmed is truly disturbing, the usual suspects think one good example balances the scale.

Truly vile

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 8522220)

Instead of recognising the hard job done by the vast majority of officers the usual suspects cannot wait to stick the boot in and roll out the agendas

its truly vile

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 8522217)

to call illustrating the difficult job policemen do in the USA a desperate example, one where an officer was wounded is frankly disgusting

utterly disgusting, shame on you

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 8522826)

it's not vile at all, i noticed you never said that those 1000 people were innocent? i'm sure 99% of them were not innocent at all, and being unarmed doesn't mean anything, people can be life-threatening without having a gun.

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey (Post 8523121)

There are a minority of trigger happy cops in the US who have abused their power or been negligent of their duties.
I can kind of understand them being twitchy over there with gun crime what it is.They will obviously be thinking they may not get home to their families on every call out they get.It is unfortunatley how things have evolved and i can't see much changing while guns are so easily accessible to thugs and criminals.No matter how well trained a cop is.They need to be ready to react with lethal force at any given moment.Some of them don't have the nerve to hold back when they should.