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-   -   Article: 'What is it about the left that makes anti-semitism so common?' (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299984)

JoshBB 06-04-2016 01:27 AM
Article: 'What is it about the left that makes anti-semitism so common?'
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2...ism-so-common/

Now, I'm not the kind of person who likes to make generalisations on those who side politically left or right (though some of you may disagree with my self-analysis), and it is no secret that I lean towards the left.. however I thought I would share this article because it provoked thought and I found it interesting.

This paragraph in particular changed my thoughts slightly too:
Quote:
Part of the problem, I think, is the Left’s power-centric analysis of discrimination. Following the work of social scientist Patricia Bidol-Padva, it has become increasingly popular to define racism, sexism and other similar "isms" as “prejudice plus power”. This approach denies the possibility of anti-male sexism, for example, because men are not a discriminated against group. The goal is to discourage false equivalence in conflicts between oppressed and dominant groups. However, it’s an orthodoxy that can leave adherents with some odd blind spots.
My personal view on why anti-semitism may have a slight boost on the left compared to previously, is the fact that the whole 'Israel vs Palestine' scenario has left people to hate Israelis - which they associate with being Jewish - and therefore hating Jews. This is ridiculous because there are even jewish people who believe the israeli government are breaking human rights laws. That is however where I believe the hatred & ignorance comes from, although it is thankfully a minority opinion by far.

Interested to hear others' opinions on this because I found it interesting and hopefully you guys will too :)

lostalex 06-04-2016 01:42 AM
The right is just as anti-semitic just in a different way. it's a case of an enemy of my enemy is my friend. the same way the right bashes muslims for their treatment of women, but the right doesn't really care about women. the right bashes muslim for their treatment of gays but the right doesn't care about gays. The right supports jews only because they want to bash muslim, but behind closed doors the right doesn't care about jews at all.

arista 06-04-2016 02:32 AM
Yes JoshBB
Labour have some Nasty Jewish Haters.
Who write it all online or in papers


All Sensible Labour MP's want these Nasty ones
removed forever

Its been debated on the Daily Politics(BBC2HD),
Ch4HD News and SkyNewsHD
some weeks back.

Livia 06-04-2016 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshBB (Post 8597532)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2...ism-so-common/

Now, I'm not the kind of person who likes to make generalisations on those who side politically left or right (though some of you may disagree with my self-analysis), and it is no secret that I lean towards the left.. however I thought I would share this article because it provoked thought and I found it interesting.

This paragraph in particular changed my thoughts slightly too:

My personal view on why anti-semitism may have a slight boost on the left compared to previously, is the fact that the whole 'Israel vs Palestine' scenario has left people to hate Israelis - which they associate with being Jewish - and therefore hating Jews. This is ridiculous because there are even jewish people who believe the israeli government are breaking human rights laws. That is however where I believe the hatred & ignorance comes from, although it is thankfully a minority opinion by far.

Interested to hear others' opinions on this because I found it interesting and hopefully you guys will too :)

Six million Jews were gassed long before Israel became a State. If people equate Jews with being Israeli it's just the same as considering all Muslims to be terrorists. Using the Israel/Palestine question in my opinion is making excuses for bigots who probably couldn't point to Israel on a map. Jews have been persecuted for centuries... millennia... but since 1947 there has been an excuse for it.

JoshBB 06-04-2016 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia (Post 8597799)
Six million Jews were gassed long before Israel became a State. If people equate Jews with being Israeli it's just the same as considering all Muslims to be terrorists. Using the Israel/Palestine question in my opinion is making excuses for bigots who probably couldn't point to Israel on a map. Jews have been persecuted for centuries... millennia... but since 1947 there has been an excuse for it.
Yeah that's the point I was trying to get at, you've said it much better. I feel like a lot of racists use the Israeli state as a way to incite hatred towards Jews which is entirely unacceptable but that's the reason why it persists on the left possibly? Because of the only one-sided sympathy thing?

Kizzy 06-04-2016 11:04 AM
What happened in 1947?

Livia 06-04-2016 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshBB (Post 8597879)
Yeah that's the point I was trying to get at, you've said it much better. I feel like a lot of racists use the Israeli state as a way to incite hatred towards Jews which is entirely unacceptable but that's the reason why it persists on the left possibly? Because of the only one-sided sympathy thing?
Hitler wasn't a leftie... he was as far from being a leftie as you can get. I don't think any one group of people are particularly prone to anti-Semitism, unless you count stupid, ignorant people as being one group. I've had heated discussions about Israel and I do see things differently, probably, because I visit Israel often, I know the history and I am a Jew. But that doesn't mean I sympathise with the Israeli government because I don't, and neither do many Jews... nor Israelis, come to that. So yes, while people use Israel as an excuse to bash the Jews, before the State of Israel, they found other reasons to hate us.

Livia 06-04-2016 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8597905)
What happened in 1947?
Typo.... 1948.

Mystic Mock 06-04-2016 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshBB (Post 8597879)
Yeah that's the point I was trying to get at, you've said it much better. I feel like a lot of racists use the Israeli state as a way to incite hatred towards Jews which is entirely unacceptable but that's the reason why it persists on the left possibly? Because of the only one-sided sympathy thing?
I think the reason that the left has such an issue with Jewish people is because a lot of Jewish people are business minded so are more likely to be right wing, hence why I think some of the left has an issue with Jewish people.

And also there are your racist left (which I know isn't very common) but it does exist, but I think as the secondry thing to the usual right versus left scenario.

What can be ironic with the left though is that they probably defend one of the most right wing organizations out there.:joker:

And btw I'm on about in their day to day lives, not with terrorism.

joeysteele 06-04-2016 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia (Post 8597915)
Hitler wasn't a leftie... he was as far from being a leftie as you can get. I don't think any one group of people are particularly prone to anti-Semitism, unless you count stupid, ignorant people as being one group. I've had heated discussions about Israel and I do see things differently, probably, because I visit Israel often, I know the history and I am a Jew. But that doesn't mean I sympathise with the Israeli government because I don't, and neither do many Jews... nor Israelis, come to that. So yes, while people use Israel as an excuse to bash the Jews, before the State of Israel, they found other reasons to hate us.
I always bow to your vast knowledge on this.
I have Jewish friends and they generally say much the same as you do.

I wish you would do a sort of blog on the issue really, it would be a fascinating, educating and insightful read for me, for one.

Crimson Dynamo 06-04-2016 12:23 PM
form a club and have some rules and it does not matter if its badminton or religion the hate will come from those who are not in it

kirklancaster 06-04-2016 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 8598017)
form a club and have some rules and it does not matter if its badminton or religion the hate will come from those who are not in it
:clap1::clap1::clap1: In a nutshell of pure truth.

Kizzy 06-04-2016 02:58 PM
I hate those shuttlecock whacking bastards! :fist:

kirklancaster 06-04-2016 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8598310)
I hate those shuttlecock whacking bastards! :fist:
:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Crimson Dynamo 06-04-2016 03:02 PM
balls in skirts?


the bastards

JoshBB 06-04-2016 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia (Post 8597915)
Hitler wasn't a leftie... he was as far from being a leftie as you can get. I don't think any one group of people are particularly prone to anti-Semitism, unless you count stupid, ignorant people as being one group. I've had heated discussions about Israel and I do see things differently, probably, because I visit Israel often, I know the history and I am a Jew. But that doesn't mean I sympathise with the Israeli government because I don't, and neither do many Jews... nor Israelis, come to that. So yes, while people use Israel as an excuse to bash the Jews, before the State of Israel, they found other reasons to hate us.
I mean don't get me wrong, I do feel like anti-semitism is more aligned to the far-right than those on the far-left, however it is one element of racism that seems to have at least a tiny amount of backing on the left whereas the left tends to reject every other form of racism. I'd find it really interesting if you did a longer post on what you think about the whole Israel scenario too like Kizzy said, with your knowledge & experiences it would be really insightful to read.

Kizzy 06-04-2016 05:04 PM
I don't think I said that Josh :laugh:
I would like a run down on 1948 though.

Marsh. 06-04-2016 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8598310)
I hate those shuttlecock whacking bastards! :fist:
:joker::joker::joker:

lostalex 07-04-2016 05:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia (Post 8597799)
Six million Jews were gassed long before Israel became a State. If people equate Jews with being Israeli it's just the same as considering all Muslims to be terrorists. Using the Israel/Palestine question in my opinion is making excuses for bigots who probably couldn't point to Israel on a map. Jews have been persecuted for centuries... millennia... but since 1947 there has been an excuse for it.
To be fair, there is a bias among jews all over the world towards Israel. especially jews in North America.

Probably because of right to return and family pressure to visit "the homeland". there is no doubt Livia that jews all over the world, no matter how far removed from Israel itself, just being jews they do feel a loyalty. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but it's silly to deny it exists.

Just like most blacks feel a loyalty to Africa even if they've never been there and have no desire to ever live there, they still have an automatic bias towards what is perceived as "the homeland".

Ammi 07-04-2016 06:02 AM
..I don't see that it could be seen as a 'bias' to see prejudices, no matter where in the world and regardless of whether that place in the world is lived in and no matter who is seeing those prejudices...surely we all see a connection to 'wrongs' and prejudice etc, simply because we're humans...

bots 07-04-2016 07:38 AM
For a while, supporting the Palestinian and other equally stupid causes was the trendy thing for left leaning politicians to do. Thankfully, that fad is on the wane now, leaving those such as Corbyn and Galloway the last idiots standing

kirklancaster 07-04-2016 08:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitontheslide (Post 8599388)
For a while, supporting the Palestinian and other equally stupid causes was the trendy thing for left leaning politicians to do. Thankfully, that fad is on the wane now, leaving those such as Corbyn and Galloway the last idiots standing
:laugh::clap1::clap1::clap1:

user104658 07-04-2016 09:13 AM
The problem is probably that people sweepingly consider any criticism of Israel to be anti-Semitism, when it is not.

Kizzy 07-04-2016 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 8599448)
The problem is probably that people sweepingly consider any criticism of Israel to be anti-Semitism, when it is not.
:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

Kizzy 07-04-2016 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitontheslide (Post 8599388)
For a while, supporting the Palestinian and other equally stupid causes was the trendy thing for left leaning politicians to do. Thankfully, that fad is on the wane now, leaving those such as Corbyn and Galloway the last idiots standing
What a reductive view, hey,some think war and genocide are wrong...let's mock them till they change their minds :/

Crimson Dynamo 07-04-2016 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 8599448)
The problem is probably that people sweepingly consider any criticism of Israel to be anti-Semitism, when it is not.
what "people" is this?

user104658 07-04-2016 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 8599482)
what "people" is this?
Stupid ones?

Kizzy 07-04-2016 10:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 8599509)
Stupid ones?
:joker: :joker: :joker:

Livia 07-04-2016 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshBB (Post 8598451)
I mean don't get me wrong, I do feel like anti-semitism is more aligned to the far-right than those on the far-left, however it is one element of racism that seems to have at least a tiny amount of backing on the left whereas the left tends to reject every other form of racism. I'd find it really interesting if you did a longer post on what you think about the whole Israel scenario too like Kizzy said, with your knowledge & experiences it would be really insightful to read.
Don't think Kizzy would ever say anything positive to me or about me. I'll put something together Josh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 8599324)
To be fair, there is a bias among jews all over the world towards Israel. especially jews in North America.

Probably because of right to return and family pressure to visit "the homeland". there is no doubt Livia that jews all over the world, no matter how far removed from Israel itself, just being jews they do feel a loyalty. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, but it's silly to deny it exists.

Just like most blacks feel a loyalty to Africa even if they've never been there and have no desire to ever live there, they still have an automatic bias towards what is perceived as "the homeland".
Israel is our spiritual and cultural home. The Israel talked about in the Bible, not the state set up in the forties. If Britain and the US had not instigated the "State of Israel", Jews would still have gone there after the Holocaust, no one could have stopped them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 8599448)
The problem is probably that people sweepingly consider any criticism of Israel to be anti-Semitism, when it is not.
Sweepingly? Anti-Semitism is stabbing and shooting people just because they are Jews, it's blowing up synagogues and attacking worshippers simply because they are Jews. I don't support the vast majority of what the Israeli government do... however, there is no black and white answer regarding Israel and Palestine. You have to view it from both sides, it's not a Good/Bad question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8599475)
What a reductive view, hey,some think war and genocide are wrong...let's mock them till they change their minds :/
They claim to be against war and genocide and yet cosy up to some of the biggest despots in the known world. Seems a bit of an anomaly to me.

joeysteele 07-04-2016 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia (Post 8599519)
Don't think Kizzy would ever say anything positive to me or about me. I'll put something together Josh.



Israel is our spiritual and cultural home. The Israel talked about in the Bible, not the state set up in the forties. If Britain and the US had not instigated the "State of Israel", Jews would still have gone there after the Holocaust, no one could have stopped them.



Sweepingly? Anti-Semitism is stabbing and shooting people just because they are Jews, it's blowing up synagogues and attacking worshippers simply because they are Jews. I don't support the vast majority of what the Israeli government do... however, there is no black and white answer regarding Israel and Palestine. You have to view it from both sides, it's not a Good/Bad question.



They claim to be against war and genocide and yet cosy up to some of the biggest despots in the known world. Seems a bit of an anomaly to me.


Actually I think I was the one who wished you would.:hee:

You have always been the focus of where I would come on this issue anyway.

Livia 07-04-2016 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 8599524)
Actually I think I was the one who wished you would.:hee:

You have always been the focus of where I would come on this issue anyway.
Well, that's what happens when I try to answer multi-posts!

Thanks for the kind words, joey.

user104658 07-04-2016 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia (Post 8599519)



Sweepingly? Anti-Semitism is stabbing and shooting people just because they are Jews, it's blowing up synagogues and attacking worshippers simply because they are Jews. I don't support the vast majority of what the Israeli government do... however, there is no black and white answer regarding Israel and Palestine. You have to view it from both sides, it's not a Good/Bad question.
I'm not saying it is, all I'm saying is that when some people talk about rising anti-Semitism, they are actually referring to anti-Israel sentiment / boycotting etc... A lot of people fail to make a distinction.

That's not to say that anti-Israel sentiment doesn't sometimes spill over into antisemitism... It does, unfortunately... In the same way that people the world over find themselves blamed by association for things that they don't endorse.

lostalex 07-04-2016 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia (Post 8599519)
Don't think Kizzy would ever say anything positive to me or about me. I'll put something together Josh.



Israel is our spiritual and cultural home. The Israel talked about in the Bible, not the state set up in the forties. If Britain and the US had not instigated the "State of Israel", Jews would still have gone there after the Holocaust, no one could have stopped them.



Sweepingly? Anti-Semitism is stabbing and shooting people just because they are Jews, it's blowing up synagogues and attacking worshippers simply because they are Jews. I don't support the vast majority of what the Israeli government do... however, there is no black and white answer regarding Israel and Palestine. You have to view it from both sides, it's not a Good/Bad question.



They claim to be against war and genocide and yet cosy up to some of the biggest despots in the known world. Seems a bit of an anomaly to me.
the US definitely could have stopped them. don't act so entitled. we gave that to you, and don't forget it. the jews are getting a bit too cocky lately. The jews are still a people lost in the desert, and you can get a lot more lonely in that desert if you don't watch your tongue.

Livia 07-04-2016 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 8599542)
I'm not saying it is, all I'm saying is that when some people talk about rising anti-Semitism, they are actually referring to anti-Israel sentiment / boycotting etc... A lot of people fail to make a distinction.

That's not to say that anti-Israel sentiment doesn't sometimes spill over into antisemitism... It does, unfortunately... In the same way that people the world over find themselves blamed by association for things that they don't endorse.
Yes, I do agree it's one of the symptoms of the rising anti-Semitism but there are many other factors. The hijacking of the Islamic faith by terrorists have given right wingers all over Europe a fresh sense of indignation. They already hate the Jews anyway... so we're - confusingly - lumped in with the Islamists. And the terrorists themselves target Jews because of the Palestinian situation. It's a ****ing mare's nest. When you consider how long we have on this little planet it always astounds me that people don't make a bigger effort to get on. Except the Buddhists obviously... they're here over and over again.

Livia 07-04-2016 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 8599545)
the US definitely could have stopped them. don't act so entitled. we gave that to you, and don't forget it. the jews are getting a bit too cocky lately.
We believe that God gave it to us about 5000 years before there were any white faces in what became the USA.

Hey Alex.

lostalex 07-04-2016 10:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia (Post 8599547)
We believe that God gave it to us about 5000 years before there were any white faces in what became the USA.

Hey Alex.
Hey Livia.

there is no god. and even if there was he has no authority over this world.

Livia 07-04-2016 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 8599549)
Hey Livia.

there is no god. and even if there was he has no authority over this world.
I support your right to think that, Alex.

user104658 07-04-2016 10:51 AM
I also recently found an ancient tablet that says God gave me the whole of the US, I've had it dated and it's 8000 years old. Sooo... Start packin' Alex.

Livia 07-04-2016 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 8599560)
I also recently found an ancient tablet that says God gave me the whole of the US, I've had it dated and it's 8000 years old. Sooo... Start packin' Alex.
Like God would speak to the likes of you, TS... you bloody heathen.

user104658 07-04-2016 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia (Post 8599562)
Like God would speak to the likes of you, TS... you bloody heathen.
That's why he left a message...


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