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-   -   USA: Judge tells woman attorney "take that BLM badge off" and then Jails her (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=310439)

Crimson Dynamo 06-10-2016 11:48 AM

USA: Judge tells woman attorney "take that BLM badge off" and then Jails her
 




YOUNGSTOWN, Ohio (WKBN) – An attorney was removed from court and taken into custody after a judge declared her in contempt for refusing to take off a Black Lives Matter pin.

Youngstown Municipal Court Judge Robert Milich said Attorney Andrea Burton was in contempt of court for refusing to remove the pin in his courtroom as instructed. Burton was sentenced to five days in jail, but she has been released on a stay while an appeal is underway.

Burton will stay out of jail during the appeals process as long as she obeys Milich’s order not to wear items that make a political statement in court. If she loses her appeal, she will have to serve the five days in jail.

Milich said his opinions have nothing to do with his decision.

“A judge doesn’t support either side,” he said. “A judge is objective and tries to make sure everyone has an opportunity to have a fair hearing, and it was a situation where it was just in violation of the law,” he said.


:clap1:

http://wkbn.com/2016/07/22/attorney-...matter-button/

Niamh. 06-10-2016 11:50 AM

Well I guess if no pins like this are allowed at all then that's fine but I hope they're not being selective about which are and which aren't :nono:

Scarlett. 06-10-2016 12:03 PM

Makes sense to be fair, a courtroom is no place for political statements.

Vicky. 06-10-2016 12:04 PM

Doesn't matter what the badge was tbh, if it was one with a needle/pin it needs to go. Could have read 'I am willing to lick the judges arsehole' and she still would have had to take it off.

Edit. I somehow read this as a safety concern...which is surely how it would have been seen rather than a political thing?! When I went to court I had everything that could possibly be used as a weapon removed. You could do damage with a badge :S

Jamie89 06-10-2016 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 9001869)
Well I guess if no pins like this are allowed at all then that's fine but I hope they're not being selective about which are and which aren't :nono:

Interestingly further down the article it says this...

Attorney and community activist Kim Akins said she is worried about what happened.

“No one wearing an American flag button, no one wearing a crucifix or a Star of David would be removed, so why this particular statement bothered him so much is bothersome,” she said.

The judge said his ruling is based on Supreme Court case law in which a judge can prohibit symbolic political expression in courtrooms, even if it’s not disruptive.

“There’s a difference between a flag, a pin from your church or the Eagles and having a pin that’s on a political issue,” Milich said.


So a patriotic or religious pin for example would have been fine. I don't see the point in needing her to remove it, personally.

Crimson Dynamo 06-10-2016 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie89 (Post 9001997)
Interestingly further down the article it says this...

Attorney and community activist Kim Akins said she is worried about what happened.

“No one wearing an American flag button, no one wearing a crucifix or a Star of David would be removed, so why this particular statement bothered him so much is bothersome,” she said.

The judge said his ruling is based on Supreme Court case law in which a judge can prohibit symbolic political expression in courtrooms, even if it’s not disruptive.

“There’s a difference between a flag, a pin from your church or the Eagles and having a pin that’s on a political issue,” Milich said.


So a patriotic or religious pin for example would have been fine. I don't see the point in needing her to remove it, personally.

What do you think the badge refers to?

Niamh. 06-10-2016 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie89 (Post 9001997)
Interestingly further down the article it says this...

Attorney and community activist Kim Akins said she is worried about what happened.

“No one wearing an American flag button, no one wearing a crucifix or a Star of David would be removed, so why this particular statement bothered him so much is bothersome,” she said.

The judge said his ruling is based on Supreme Court case law in which a judge can prohibit symbolic political expression in courtrooms, even if it’s not disruptive.

“There’s a difference between a flag, a pin from your church or the Eagles and having a pin that’s on a political issue,” Milich said.


So a patriotic or religious pin for example would have been fine. I don't see the point in needing her to remove it, personally.

mmhhmm i thought as much

Crimson Dynamo 06-10-2016 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 9002001)
mmhhmm i thought as much

what, its not comparable at all?

Niamh. 06-10-2016 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 9002004)
what, its not comparable at all?

Yes it is, religions are pretty political, especially in the States

Crimson Dynamo 06-10-2016 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 9002008)
Yes it is, religions are pretty political, especially in the States

BLM is a contentious organisation with a debatable standpoint against the police (the last large study showed that their main contention was in fact false) To wear it as a representative of the state in a legal standpoint is disgraceful and contemptible.

I agree that ridiculous religious attire should also be banned

Kizzy 06-10-2016 01:40 PM

I agree it should be removed, the only issue in the courtroom should be the case being heard. I feel sorry for the guy whose day in court was compromised. Fine have her removed but the jail term? That's excessive :/

Niamh. 06-10-2016 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 9002014)
BLM is a contentious organisation with a debatable standpoint against the police (the last large study showed that their main contention was in fact false) To wear it as a representative of the state in a legal standpoint is disgraceful and contemptible.

I agree that ridiculous religious attire should also be banned

Glad you agree with me :hee:

Jamie89 06-10-2016 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 9002000)
What do you think the badge refers to?

It refers to Black Lives Matter, obviously :suspect:

If there's no set rule (which there isn't) then that's why I think it shouldn't have been an issue. If the US justice system wants to implement a rule that says BLM badges can't be worn, or no badges can be worn, then that's a different scenario.
She was jailed without breaking the law and there's also questions over whether her civil rights have been violated. It's all a bit much over a badge.

Livia 06-10-2016 02:00 PM

Attorneys (barristers in this country) are not allowed to make a personal political statement in court. Make it outside... but not inside. Follow the rules or find another job.

Crimson Dynamo 06-10-2016 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie89 (Post 9002051)
It refers to Black Lives Matter, obviously :suspect:

If there's no set rule (which there isn't) then that's why I think it shouldn't have been an issue. If the US justice system wants to implement a rule that says BLM badges can't be worn, or no badges can be worn, then that's a different scenario.
She was jailed without breaking the law and there's also questions over whether her civil rights have been violated. It's all a bit much over a badge.

It assumes that police target and murder people based on colour and its a lie, they dont

Its a disgusting "badge" for any lawyer to wear and in the court the judge rules and he rightly told her to do one

Livia 06-10-2016 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie89 (Post 9002051)
It refers to Black Lives Matter, obviously :suspect:

If there's no set rule (which there isn't) then that's why I think it shouldn't have been an issue. If the US justice system wants to implement a rule that says BLM badges can't be worn, or no badges can be worn, then that's a different scenario.
She was jailed without breaking the law and there's also questions over whether her civil rights have been violated. It's all a bit much over a badge.

She was found to be in contempt of court. Of course she broke the law. I think the judge would know...

bots 06-10-2016 02:01 PM

You wouldn't expect it to be acceptable if a lawyer wore a badge in court saying sponsored by walmart or whatever, and this is pretty much saying the same thing. its giving prominence to something that is not relevant to the case. Surely, thats whats important.

Tom4784 06-10-2016 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie89 (Post 9001997)
Interestingly further down the article it says this...

Attorney and community activist Kim Akins said she is worried about what happened.

“No one wearing an American flag button, no one wearing a crucifix or a Star of David would be removed, so why this particular statement bothered him so much is bothersome,” she said.

The judge said his ruling is based on Supreme Court case law in which a judge can prohibit symbolic political expression in courtrooms, even if it’s not disruptive.

“There’s a difference between a flag, a pin from your church or the Eagles and having a pin that’s on a political issue,” Milich said.


So a patriotic or religious pin for example would have been fine. I don't see the point in needing her to remove it, personally.

She's got a point. if you're going to enforce something like this than it needs to be all or nothing. It just makes the judge look like he was singling out BLM.

Livia 06-10-2016 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9002063)
She's got a point. if you're going to enforce something like this than it needs to be all or nothing. It just makes the judge look like he was singling out BLM.

It IS all or nothing.

NO political symbols in court. This has nothing to do with religion or with which team you support. Unless you want the KKK wearing their badges in court.

Jamie89 06-10-2016 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 9002057)
She was found to be in contempt of court. Of course she broke the law. I think the judge would know...

The contempt of court was for not removing the badge when asked, she wasn't breaking any rules or laws by wearing it in the first place. And the judge asked her to remove it based on what he wanted personally, rather than it being because a rule or law was broken. That's why her civil rights have been brought into question. I know you've said in UK courts political symbols simply aren't allowed but according to this article, that's not the case here.

Tom4784 06-10-2016 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 9002065)
It IS all or nothing.

NO political symbols in court. This has nothing to do with religion or with which team you support. Unless you want the KKK wearing their badges in court.

Yet patriotic and Religious symbols which are just as much of a political issue in the US are allowed? That's picking and choosing.

Livia 06-10-2016 02:27 PM

The judge has the final say on what goes on in their court. Political symbols are not to be worn. And political symbols are NOT the same as religious and/or patriotic symbols... no matter which way you spin it.

No one's civil rights have infringed. If the an attorney supported the KKK and wore a badge to court they would also be told to remove it without infringing their civil liberties.

Mokka 06-10-2016 02:46 PM

Religious freedom and freedom of religious expression are legally protected in the USA....so no, they are not viewed there as political statements. And Patriotism is never going to go out of style there either. It's America people....that is who Americans are by definition.

user104658 06-10-2016 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 9002082)
The judge has the final say on what goes on in their court. Political symbols are not to be worn. And political symbols are NOT the same as religious and/or patriotic symbols... no matter which way you spin it.

No one's civil rights have infringed. If the an attorney supported the KKK and wore a badge to court they would also be told to remove it without infringing their civil liberties.

Hmmmm religion I can just about accept, but how is patriotism not political?

Vicky. 06-10-2016 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie89 (Post 9001997)
Interestingly further down the article it says this...

Attorney and community activist Kim Akins said she is worried about what happened.

“No one wearing an American flag button, no one wearing a crucifix or a Star of David would be removed, so why this particular statement bothered him so much is bothersome,” she said.

The judge said his ruling is based on Supreme Court case law in which a judge can prohibit symbolic political expression in courtrooms, even if it’s not disruptive.

“There’s a difference between a flag, a pin from your church or the Eagles and having a pin that’s on a political issue,” Milich said.


So a patriotic or religious pin for example would have been fine. I don't see the point in needing her to remove it, personally.

Oh, I didn't read the article..in this case thats really crap. Should be all or nothing really.

Jamie89 06-10-2016 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 9002082)
The judge has the final say on what goes on in their court. Political symbols are not to be worn. And political symbols are NOT the same as religious and/or patriotic symbols... no matter which way you spin it.

No one's civil rights have infringed. If the an attorney supported the KKK and wore a badge to court they would also be told to remove it without infringing their civil liberties.

The Judge doesn't seem to have blanketly decided that political symbols can't be worn in his court though. He just didn't want that particular badge to be worn. A different attorney tomorrow could walk into a court room wearing a BLM badge and have no issues because the Judge of that court is fine with it. Or the same Judge might allow an attorney to wear a badge with a different political symbol on it. So to go to the extreme of jailing her for 5 days over what was essentially his personal preference seems a bit extreme to me, and far more disruptive to the case and the court than anything that would have happened had he allowed the badge to remain.
If the right thing to do is to ban all political symbols in courts then they should just do that, but leaving it open to nit picking and sending attorneys to jail as a result is crazy (as well as a waste of public money).

Northern Monkey 06-10-2016 03:42 PM

BLM are a very questionable organisation.It's debatable whether their members have been involved in terrorist acts shooting cops etc.Plus many of them are racist.Also imagine if the case being dealt with in court was for something race related.It would not look like a fair trial if the attorney was wearing a BLM badge.I don't think it should be allowed just as(as said above) a KKK badge would more than likely not be allowed.

Crimson Dynamo 06-10-2016 04:20 PM

What has BLM got to do with politics, its a hashtag rabble of people who mistakenly think policemen are killing black people because they are evil racist murderers?

:umm2:

bots 06-10-2016 04:47 PM

A judge is perfectly within their rights to set the tone of behaviour within their courtroom. Lawyers know fine well what constitutes contempt and will have been warned/advised if their behaviour was not acceptable. Someone obviously wanted to try the judges patience and suffered the consequences. If they won't accept the rules of the court, they shouldn't be practising.

arista 06-10-2016 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewy (Post 9001880)
Makes sense to be fair, a courtroom is no place for political statements.

Bang on Right Chewy

Ithinkiloveyoutoo 06-10-2016 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 9002065)
It IS all or nothing.

NO political symbols in court. This has nothing to do with religion or with which team you support. Unless you want the KKK wearing their badges in court.

BLM is not a political movement it's a social justice movement.


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