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-   -   Iron Fist (Debuts on Netflix on the 17th March) (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=316616)

Tom4784 07-02-2017 09:23 PM

Iron Fist (Debuts on Netflix on the 17th March)
 

The last Marvel solo series to air before the Defenders. I think it looks okay, definitely looks more in line with Daredevil than Jessica Jones/Luke Cage.

user104658 09-02-2017 10:51 AM

I can't say I previously knew much about Iron Fist before he was announced for Netflix/Defenders but from this trailer... ... ...

... ... ... Oliver Queen? Iss dat you? :joker:

Some definite similarities ther but :shrug: it still looks decent and I'll probs binge it. I just hope the final 20 minutes of Luke Cage wasn't indicative of the direction we're heading because I honestly found it awful despite enjoying the series as a whole :umm2:.

Tom4784 09-02-2017 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 9211740)
I can't say I previously knew much about Iron Fist before he was announced for Netflix/Defenders but from this trailer... ... ...

... ... ... Oliver Queen? Iss dat you? :joker:

Some definite similarities ther but :shrug: it still looks decent and I'll probs binge it. I just hope the final 20 minutes of Luke Cage wasn't indicative of the direction we're heading because I honestly found it awful despite enjoying the series as a whole :umm2:.

I loved the first half of Luke Cage but the second half was terrible and it only gets worse the more I think about it.

Spoiler:

Getting rid of Cottonmouth so quickly was stupid, Diamondback was a pantomine villain and they missed a trick by sidelining Mariah in favour of him.

It's also annoying that a huge chunk of the series was spent on trying to sort out Luke' injury when they could have dealt with that arc in less time and still have the impact it had before. Luke Cage should have been an eight episode series, there was way too much filler in the last half.

user104658 09-02-2017 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9211805)
I loved the first half of Luke Cage but the second half was terrible and it only gets worse the more I think about it.

Spoiler:

Getting rid of Cottonmouth so quickly was stupid, Diamondback was a pantomine villain and they missed a trick by sidelining Mariah in favour of him.

It's also annoying that a huge chunk of the series was spent on trying to sort out Luke' injury when they could have dealt with that arc in less time and still have the impact it had before. Luke Cage should have been an eight episode series, there was way too much filler in the last half.

Spoiler:

Cottonmouth was a much better villain, and the only thing that saved the latter half in terms of villains was Mariah and Shades who I thought was decent. I still found it watchable almost all of the way but I swear to god, the second half of the final episode is some of the worst written television I've ever seen, literally. To the point that I don't actually understand how it can have happened. The writing is bad... The dialogue is awful... The premise is stupid and unrealistic (for a superhero drama, even!)... I just can't.

Scarlett. 19-03-2017 11:47 AM

Finished the Iron Fist, I quite enjoyed it, here's my rankings for all four Defenders

1) Daredevil
2) Luke Cage
3) Iron Fist
4) Jessica Jones

I've really loved them all, despite any flaws they may have.

Tom4784 19-03-2017 01:28 PM

I watched the first two episodes and I'm completely bored by it. The writing is terrible and clumsy (the hobo in the first episode randomly offering to google people for Danny was atrociously written). The choreography so far is underwhelming and most of the characters seem like archetypes. I'll keep going with it but it does feel like the bosses of the Netflix Marvel shows decided to let the interns do Iron Fist.

user104658 19-03-2017 02:15 PM

I'm sort of enjoying it but agree it's not quite up to Netflix-marvel standards for me. Some of the writing is indeed clumsy but the major issue for me is that Danny Rand (thus far, I'm on episode 6) is straight up unlikeable? And a bit... Simple, almost?

Tom4784 19-03-2017 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 9255323)
I'm sort of enjoying it but agree it's not quite up to Netflix-marvel standards for me. Some of the writing is indeed clumsy but the major issue for me is that Danny Rand (thus far, I'm on episode 6) is straight up unlikeable? And a bit... Simple, almost?

Yeah, for a monk that spouts off wise sayings a lot he is quite dumb and naive.

user104658 19-03-2017 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9255333)
Yeah, for a monk that spouts off wise sayings a lot he is quite dumb and naive.

It's how confused he seems when people think he's nuts when he starts talking about the Iron Fist and other dimensions...

"Wot? It's true! Why are you not believe me? :( "

Brother Leon 19-03-2017 03:00 PM

Reviews are slaughtering it. Will give it a go soon. It can't be worse than Luke Cage after you know what happens..

Tom4784 19-03-2017 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Leon (Post 9255343)
Reviews are slaughtering it. Will give it a go soon. It can't be worse then Luke Cage after you know what happens..

Just judging from what I've seen, I'd say it's easily worse. It might get better in time but I'll probably drag myself to the end of it just so I don't miss out on anything for The Defenders.

Tom4784 19-03-2017 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 9255337)
It's how confused he seems when people think he's nuts when he starts talking about the Iron Fist and other dimensions...

"Wot? It's true! Why are you not believe me? :( "

It's really bad writing.... Although on one hand the characters exist in a world where the existence of aliens and alternate dimensions where Norse Gods reside are common knowledge so I'm guessing it's not too much of a stretch...

The way Danny goes about trying to prove it is silly though.

user104658 19-03-2017 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Leon (Post 9255343)
Reviews are slaughtering it. Will give it a go soon. It can't be worse then Luke Cage after you know what happens..

To be fair some of the problems that the reviewers have with it are political bull**** like cultural misappropriation. Yawn. I think they're on the harsh side. The writing is still MOSTLY decent. The main issue for me is Danny Rand himself. I don't rate the character or the actor tbh

user104658 19-03-2017 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9255349)
It's really bad writing.... Although on one hand the characters exist in a world where the existence of aliens and alternate dimensions where Norse Gods reside are common knowledge so I'm guessing it's not too much of a stretch...

The way Danny goes about trying to prove it is silly though.

That bothers me too, though! The fact that they find it SO crazy. In a world where they know about Thor... The Hulk... And it's New York so they now have Spiderman on their doorstep. They react like they don't understand that it's possible.

Tom4784 19-03-2017 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 9255355)
That bothers me too, though! The fact that they find it SO crazy. In a world where they know about Thor... The Hulk... And it's New York so they now have Spiderman on their doorstep. They react like they don't understand that it's possible.

Yeah, it's just bad writing on both sides, it makes no sense for any of them to act like they do but they do so anyway because the plot demands it.

Brother Leon 19-03-2017 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 9255351)
To be fair some of the problems that the reviewers have with it are political bull**** like cultural misappropriation. Yawn. I think they're on the harsh side. The writing is still MOSTLY decent. The main issue for me is Danny Rand himself. I don't rate the character or the actor tbh

That would be fairly stupid if so considering Danny Rand is supposed to be a white guy from NYC.

user104658 19-03-2017 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Leon (Post 9255366)
That would be fairly stupid if so considering Danny Rand is supposed to be a white guy from NYC.

True but show critics aren't always aware of the comic book lore, and also, there has been criticism of the comic in the past for the same...

user104658 19-03-2017 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9255346)
Just judging from what I've seen, I'd say it's easily worse. It might get better in time but I'll probably drag myself to the end of it just so I don't miss out on anything for The Defenders.

Tentatively, I'd say the first 2/3 episodes are the worst, but there's always the chance it could slide backwards before the end. I mean, I thought Luke Cage was great for the first half, mediocre for most of the second half, and then straight up ****ing ridiculous in the final episode sooo it's not over until it's over I guess [emoji23]

user104658 19-03-2017 06:00 PM

I'm also unsure what it is that Rand brings to the defenders that's any different? He essentially fights like Daredevil, but with a Luke-Cage-Hand limit break :hee:. OK his iron fist thing might actually be stronger than Cage / Jessica Jones but from what I've seen so far, he can't or doesn't actually use it very often :think:.

user104658 19-03-2017 06:01 PM

Maybe he's the Tony Stark and they need his dollaz...

user104658 19-03-2017 06:02 PM

Oh yeah, which reminds me, someone in an early episode described that Rands as the richest family in New York / Rand as the richest company. Does that mean he's richer than Stark? Also... Isn't it likely that he would have met / know the Starks when he was young?

Scarlett. 19-03-2017 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9255349)
It's really bad writing.... Although on one hand the characters exist in a world where the existence of aliens and alternate dimensions where Norse Gods reside are common knowledge so I'm guessing it's not too much of a stretch...

The way Danny goes about trying to prove it is silly though.

The way I see it, is, Danny is still sort of a child, sure he's grown up with monks, but in the real world he has next to no experience, you see hints of that in the board meetings. Iron Fist does have issues, but its an okay series, I'd say it mostly suffers from a low low budget. Also, Iron Fist should have had a mask, they could have had a double doing the fight scenes.

Scarlett. 19-03-2017 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 9255521)
Oh yeah, which reminds me, someone in an early episode described that Rands as the richest family in New York / Rand as the richest company. Does that mean he's richer than Stark? Also... Isn't it likely that he would have met / know the Starks when he was young?

I guess the Stark family isnt just confined to New York though, where as the Rand family seems to have been based there for years. It is possible that the Rand and Stark families once met I'd say.

Also, interesting little nugget, this is from the flashback in S1 Ep1 of Daredevil
https://thenerdsofcolor.files.wordpr.../randtruck.jpg

Tom4784 19-03-2017 09:57 PM

Just finished Episode 4, it's gotten watchable now that they've started to develop a story beyond all the Dallas styled soap opera **** but Danny's insufferable and the actor is just not very convincing in the role. He looks and acts like a student that's just come back from a gap year, not a martial arts master that spent 15 years training.

I guess I consider it watchable as a guilty pleasure but it's a far cry from the likes of Jessica Jones which was just a fantastic show through and through.

Scarlett. 19-03-2017 11:19 PM

I've given it time now, I think the show is okay, if they do a season 2, they need to really up their game, hopefully Danny will be better in the Defenders.

user104658 20-03-2017 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewy (Post 9255813)
I've given it time now, I think the show is okay, if they do a season 2, they need to really up their game, hopefully Danny will be better in the Defenders.

There's easy potential for them to "fix" the character TBH - just have the events of The Defenders and his interactions with DD, JJ and Cage (who are all very different), and learning about their experiences, have a large impact on him / his outlook and philosophies. Then you can have him be quite different in S2 with a ready-made explanation.

I also think the series wasn't action-focused enough for the character. It seems to be more in tune with Jessica Jones and Luke Cage which focused more on other aspects of the story with the action being less at the front. The difference being that (IMO) the Jessica Jones storyline was darkly compelling and Luke Cage's (for MOST of it) was an intriguing character drama. But does ANYONE give a **** about Rand Enterprises? Or find the Meachum family drama in any way interesting? I don't think so! It needs to be more like DareDevil which strikes a more 50/50 balance. Still plenty of story focus but a lot of action in the majority of episodes, too. Give it a better fights / stunts budget, get in a skilled stunt double for Danny and give us more martial arts ass kickery :joker:. The best action scenes of this series (if far fetched...) have been Colleen Wing's cage fights :think:...

Tom4784 20-03-2017 02:27 PM

Here for Colleen and Claire being BFFs tbh.

I demand the Claire, Colleen and Misty team up series that we deserve!

user104658 20-03-2017 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9256081)
Here for Colleen and Claire being BFFs tbh.

I demand the Claire, Colleen and Misty team up series that we deserve!

Misty would just let the side down to be honest. She kept getting herself shot, lost her sh*t as soon as a gun was pointed at her, and with the time it took her to be "sure" about Luke's identity and then figure out that he wasn't a killer, she's frankly a terrible detective. Claire on the other hand is a nurse who became an adept superhero surgeon overnight and Colleen is a ninja. If they need another team mate they'd do better with a roided-up Trish... She was pretty hard core.

Tom4784 21-03-2017 12:57 PM

Finished Episode 6, Madame Gao's elevating proceedings a bit but I'll be pissed off if she dies and all that potential they've built up gets wasted in this series.

Everything else is starting to gel together a bit now but Danny just doesn't work. The writing around him is supremely clumsy (the whole talking to his master thing is PAINFUL) and he suffers from a major case of Barry-Allenitis in that he's got all this power and shouldn't really lose against anyone he's fought so far but he does because the plot demands it which makes him look incompetent in the process.

I'm also starting to sympathise with Ward, if I had to deal with that manchild day in day out i'd be popping pills too.

Also the Hand are pretty poor villains, they are just an amorphous organisation which is difficult to care about. They were the worst part of Daredevil S2 and they aren't much better here although Gao's presence is improving things.

Tom4784 21-03-2017 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 9256483)
Misty would just let the side down to be honest. She kept getting herself shot, lost her sh*t as soon as a gun was pointed at her, and with the time it took her to be "sure" about Luke's identity and then figure out that he wasn't a killer, she's frankly a terrible detective. Claire on the other hand is a nurse who became an adept superhero surgeon overnight and Colleen is a ninja. If they need another team mate they'd do better with a roided-up Trish... She was pretty hard core.

Trish can be a recurring character :nono:

user104658 21-03-2017 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9257028)
Finished Episode 6, Madame Gao's elevating proceedings a bit but I'll be pissed off if she dies and all that potential they've built up gets wasted in this series.

Everything else is starting to gel together a bit now but Danny just doesn't work. The writing around him is supremely clumsy (the whole talking to his master thing is PAINFUL) and he suffers from a major case of Barry-Allenitis in that he's got all this power and shouldn't really lose against anyone he's fought so far but he does because the plot demands it which makes him look incompetent in the process.

I'm also starting to sympathise with Ward, if I had to deal with that manchild day in day out i'd be popping pills too.

Also the Hand are pretty poor villains, they are just an amorphous organisation which is difficult to care about. They were the worst part of Daredevil S2 and they aren't much better here although Gao's presence is improving things.

Think we're on the same episode... I don't think Rand actually has lost a fight yet though? They've made sort of a point of him "never losing", and the fact that he had to yield the tournament to save the girl didn't set well with him, he struggles to come to terms with it because he doesn't know how to not win. It's not quite as bad as Barry IMO. They make his powers (especially his top speed) totally inconsistent to fit whatever the plot of the week happens to be.

I think Ward is supposed to be a sympathetic character really. Just the product of his father, who is a really slimy little cretin :joker:. I'd actually say one of the most effective villains so far, purely on account of being so genuinely unlikable.

Tom4784 21-03-2017 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 9257048)
Think we're on the same episode... I don't think Rand actually has lost a fight yet though? They've made sort of a point of him "never losing", and the fact that he had to yield the tournament to save the girl didn't set well with him, he struggles to come to terms with it because he doesn't know how to not win. It's not quite as bad as Barry IMO. They make his powers (especially his top speed) totally inconsistent to fit whatever the plot of the week happens to be.

I think Ward is supposed to be a sympathetic character really. Just the product of his father, who is a really slimy little cretin :joker:. I'd actually say one of the most effective villains so far, purely on account of being so genuinely unlikable.

I think it's more to do with the fact that he struggles against grunts that bothers me, like that fight in the Lorry. It just feels like lazy writing.

I only sympathise with Ward because Danny's so unlikable though, I doubt that was the writer's intent :laugh:

Scarlett. 21-03-2017 04:46 PM

Ep.13 spoilers

Spoiler:

I don't think Gao is with The Hand

user104658 21-03-2017 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewy (Post 9257218)
Ep.13 spoilers

Spoiler:

I don't think Gao is with The Hand

I've not watched that far yet but right from their first interaction, I've been thinking that there's a good chance that Gao is an ex-Iron Fist?

Scarlett. 21-03-2017 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 9257545)
I've not watched that far yet but right from their first interaction, I've been thinking that there's a good chance that Gao is an ex-Iron Fist?

There is a lot of mystery about her, so I'm not sure myself

Niamh. 22-03-2017 02:37 PM

:fan:


Scarlett. 24-03-2017 04:06 AM

I've put some more thought into Iron Fist, and how it stacks up with the rest, I feel that unlike the other three, there is no great villains like Fisk, Kilgrave, Cottonmouth, Shades, or hell, even Diamondback (I think the fight would have been better if he looked less dorky, lol). While Iron Fist has some interesting characters, there is no real full on villain, Madame Gao is great, but that is thanks to Daredevil building the character up.

The fight scenes were pretty lacking too, the only one that stood out at all was the hatchet fight. Danny's motivations also don't seem to exist, he's in New York because...? I think for season 2, we definitely need more insight into the character, and a better overall plot.

user104658 24-03-2017 07:10 AM

Despite its flaws I've quite enjoyed plodding through it whilst pottering about doing other things, but that did make me realise something. It's definitely far less complex than the other three shows. You CAN watch it windowed whilst (for example) sitting in TiBB arguing the toss on SD, and still follow what's going on. I've gotten through the series much faster than I did with either DD series, Jones or Cage... And that's because all of those series demand your full attention. If you get distracted doing something else you constantly have to skip back because you missed something important to the plot. Doesn't happen with Iron Fist very often... Which suggests that the plot is pretty simple. I don't necessarily mind that, I like a good mix of easy viewing and more complex shows on my "to watch" list.

I do agree that Danny himself is massively under-developed as a character, though. He just doesn't make sense. He doesn't seem like he has the strength of mind required to SURVIVE 15 years of intense martial arts training... Let alone to thrive and become Iron Fist :think:. I mean, for all of Arrow's flaws in recent seasons (though I actually thought the most recent episode was above par) they at least have convincingly created a character who returned from his "missing" time as a completely different person to the rich kid who left. There's a clear path of him going from soft billionaire to hard as nails vigilante and it for the mostpart works. Danny Rand seems to have managed to spend 15 years in a monastery working himself half to death with training, being beaten with sticks for failure, and has come back... As exactly the same kid, except a martial arts master! It's not very plausible [emoji23].

Tom4784 26-03-2017 07:47 PM

I finished it.

It went from boring, to watchable but bad to straight up ****.

Spoiler:

The plot is all over the place and the influx of random villains and enemies at the end is just stupid. Bakuto and Davos were literally there to fill up a few episodes and (in the process) their presence managed to totally destroy the only interesting orginal character in Iron First. Colleen being part of the Hand is a crap twist that makes no sense and completely derails her character, it makes her look dumb and naive which she wasn't before the twist happened. Also Harold and Bakuto make Diamondback look like a subtle and nuanced villain, I'm surprised there was any scenery left by the end given how they were feasting on it and not in a good way.

The whole last episode with Danny on the run just felt out of place, like the writers ran out of ideas and threw it together by taking inspirations from the most generic sources possible. The fact that they presented Harold as such a threat to Danny when they fought was just silly, like I said before, the writers have a bad habit of making Danny look incompetent because they don't know how to balance out his powers. Even with one hand, Danny should have destroyed Harold. What the writers SHOULD have done was introduce Davos earlier, develop him, have both Bakuto and Harold killed off before the last episode and have the last episode based around the build up of bad blood between Danny and Davos.

Don't even get me started on the fact that Joy went from turning against her dad because he framed Danny in one scene to wanting Danny dead for some nonsensical reason in the next. It was eye rolling-ly bad.

The only good points were Claire and Gao and the writers made the same mistake that Luke Cage's writers did in jettisoning Gao (IE the only interesting villain) partway through, thankfully they had the sense not to kill her off.


IF there's a season 2, I'm just going to read a plot summary. I can't watch another 13 hours of this ****.

user104658 27-03-2017 12:46 PM

https://image.ibb.co/b099Dv/danny_rand_phone_home.jpg


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