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Term time holiday dad loses court battle

A father has lost his legal challenge against a fine for taking his daughter on an unauthorised term-time holiday.
The Supreme Court ruled against Jon Platt, who had won earlier legal battles against a £120 fine in a case brought by the Isle of Wight council.
He said the decision, over a trip to Florida, meant the "state was taking the rights away from parents".
Term-time holiday dad loses court battle
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39504338

He says he's may take her out of school and home educate his daughter, because the same rules don't apply to home educated children. His daughter had a perfect attendance record apart from this. Ridiculous... and how come taking a child on holiday affects their education, but teachers taking INSET days off in term time does not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey (Post 9273985)

Hm,teachers don't much care about the kids education when they close a school for certain days.

It's a ridiculous rule, an issue should only be flagged up if a child's overall attendance record is low without a good reason (e.g. Repeated illness) or if their education is obviously suffering (e.g. they are already lagging behind and time off will make things worse).

Other than that, I can imagine that any child is likely to learn far more on a two week holiday abroad than they are in two weeks sat in school.

Is it the teachers decision to close the school...Would that not be the LEA?

Ridiculous and it's always the hard working, dedicated parents who get made examples of, not the ones who are genuinely taking the piss

It's fairly ridiculous, parents should only face fines if attendance becomes a real issue and holidays should be allowed in term time since not everyone will be able to afford taking holidays during school holidays since that's when they are at their most expensive.

I do agree that this law is encroaching on the parents' rights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9274003)

It's fairly ridiculous, parents should only face fines if attendance becomes a real issue and holidays should be allowed in term time since not everyone will be able to afford taking holidays during school holidays since that's when they are at their most expensive.

I do agree that this law is encroaching on the parents' rights.

100%

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 9273987)

I totally agree.
I find the term children should attend regularly really meaning they 'have' to attend totally confusing.

This rule is a ridiculous mess.

Laughable ruling, the case should never have gone further than the High Court. This government gets more dictatorial by the day.

He seems a great guy who knows what he's talking about, I follow his page on Facebook. He suspected they'd rule this way a few weeks ago. His statement (unfortunately in all caps):

Quote:

I LOST.

THE FOLLOWING IS THE STATEMENT I WILL BE READING OUTSIDE COURT JUST AFTER 10AM.

I WANT TO START BY THANKING A FEW PEOPLE. FIRSTLY MY LEGAL TEAM OF MICHAEL SPOORS, LEE PECKHAM PAUL GREATOREX AND CLIVE SHELDON QC. THEY HAVE ALL BEEN OUTSTANDING ADVOCATES AND I CAN’T THANK THEM ENOUGH FOR THEIR WORK ON THIS CASE OVER THE LAST 2 YEARS. CRAIG LANGMAN OF PARENTS WANT A SAY AND KAREN WILKINSON OF PARENTS UNION WHO HAVE CAMPAIGNED ON THIS ISSUE FOR YEARS, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND HARD WORK. THANKS TOO TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SENT MESSAGES OF SUPPORT AND TO THE SCHOOL TEACHER KARIN SIEMUND WHO HAS SPENT HOURS HELPING ME RESPOND TO MESSAGES FROM PARENTS WHO NEED HELP AND ADVICE.

TO MY FAMILY, WHO HAVE PUT UP WITH THIS NIGHTMARE FOR 2 YEARS BECAUSE I WAS TOO STUBBORN TO PAY A £60 PENALTY NOTICE, THANK YOU AND SORRY. FINALLY MY WONDERFUL WIFE SALLY WHO HAS BEEN FORCED TO LIVE ALMOST EVERY SECOND OF THIS AND PUT UP WITH SO MUCH, THANK YOU, IT IS ALMOST OVER.

AS YOU ALL JUST HEARD, THE SUPREME COURT HAS JUST REVERSED DECADES OF JUDICIAL PRECEDENT. THEY DIDN’T JUST SAY THAT A HIGH COURT JUDGE WHO HEARD MY CASE, LORD JUSTICE LLOYD JONES, MISINTERPRETTED THE LAW, THEY HAVE CONCLUDED THAT EARLIER HIGH COURT DECISIONS FROM 2006 (THE BROMLEY JUDGMENT) AND 1969 (CRUMP V GILMORE) WERE ALSO WRONG IN THEIR INTERPRETATION OF THE LAW AND SHOULD NO LONGER BE FOLLOWED.

BE IN NO DOUBT, DESPITE TODAY'S JUDGMENT, I FOLLOWED THE LAW, PRECISELY AS LAID DOWN AND INTERPRETED BY HIGH COURT JUDGES IN TWO DIFFERENT CASES FROM 1969 AND 2006. TO ATTEND REGULARLY, THEY TOLD ME, WAS TO ATTEND ‘VERY FREQUENTLY’ SO I DECIDED NOT TO PAY A £60 PENALTY NOTICE BECAUSE MY DAUGHTER HAD OTHERWISE NEAR PERFECT ATTENDANCE. THE DECISION OF THOSE HIGH COURT JUDGES FROM 1969 AND 2006 INFORMED MY DECISION MAKING PROCESS, BUT HERE I STAND OUTSIDE THE SUPREME COURT HAVING JUST BEEN TOLD THAT I WAS WRONG TO RELY ON THE DECISIONS OF THOSE HIGH COURT JUDGES TO GUIDE ME ON THE LAW. WITH THIS JUDGMENT THOSE PRECEDENTS HAVE BEEN SWEPT AWAY AND THE CONSEQUENCES CAN ONLY BE DESCRIBED AS SHOCKING.

TO ATTEND SCHOOL REGULARLY NO LONGER MEANS TO ATTEND VERY FREQUENTLY - IT NOW MEANS TO ATTEND AT ALL TIMES AND ON ALL DAYS THAT THE SCHOOL REQUIRES IT. EVERY UNAUTHORISED ABSENCE, INCLUDING BEING A MINUTE LATE TO SCHOOL IS NOW A CRIMINAL OFFENCE.

IF YOU SHARE CUSTODY OF YOUR CHILD WITH A FORMER PARTNER AND THEY ARE LATE GETTING YOUR CHILD TO SCHOOL…. YOU HAVE COMMITTED A CRIMINAL OFFENCE EVEN IF YOU WEREN’T AWARE OF IT.

IF YOU DECIDE TO KEEP YOUR CHILD OFF SCHOOL FOR A DAY BECAUSE THEY LOOK EXHAUSTED AFTER HAVING A DIFFICULT NIGHT OF BAD DREAMS, YOU HAVE COMMITTED A CRIMINAL OFFENCE IF THE HEAD TEACHER SECOND GUESSES THAT DECISION AND MARKS IT AS UNAUTHORISED.

THIS ISSUE IS NO LONGER, IF EVER WAS, ABOUT TERM TIME HOLIDAYS, IT IS ABOUT THE STATE TAKING AWAY PARENTS ABILITY TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT IS BEST FOR THEIR CHILDREN.

MANY OF YOU MIGHT HAVE THOUGHT, GIVEN IN 2015 WHEN I TOOK MY FAMILY ON THIS NOW INFAMOUS TERM TIME HOLIDAY, AS I WAS, AT THAT TIME FOLLOWING THE LAW AS LAID DOWN BY SEVERAL HIGH COURT JUDGES, THAT IT WOULD BE GROSSLY UNFAIR TO RETROSPECTIVELY CRIMINALISE ME. THAT WAS VERY NEARLY NOT THE CASE. THE FIRST DRAFT OF THE COURT'S JUDGMENT THAT I RECEIVED YESTERDAY REMITTED THIS CASE BACK TO THE MAGISTRATES WITH A DIRECTION TO CONVICT. IT WAS ONLY WHEN MY LEGAL TEAM POINTED OUT THAT I HAVE NOT EVEN HAD A TRIAL YET THAT THIS REFERENCE WAS REMOVED. I NOW HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE ISLE OF WIGHT MAGISTRATES COURT WHERE THIS ALL STARTED 2 YEARS AGO FOR A TRIAL. I CAN TELL YOU TODAY THAT I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION OF PLEADING GUILTY TO THIS OFFENCE.

TO PARENTS ALL OVER ENGLAND, I SAY THIS. THE LEGAL BATTLE IS OVER. THERE IS NO RIGHT OF APPEAL BEYOND THIS PLACE. IT WILL BE A GENERATION OR MORE BEFORE THIS COURT REVISITS THIS DECISION IF EVER THEY DO. YOU CAN NO LONGER MAKE A DECISION TO TAKE YOUR CHILD OUT OF SCHOOL, EVEN FOR ONE DAY, WITHOUT THE PERMISSION OF THE STATE.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN THIS IS THE END OF THIS MATTER. PETITIONS HAVE BEEN SIGNED BY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PARENTS. PARLIAMENT HAS DEBATED THIS ISSUE MULTIPLE TIMES. NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

SO I WOULD URGE EACH AND EVERY PARENT AND GRANDPARENT THAT FINDS THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS JUDGMENT TO BE SHOCKING, TO VOTE ON THE 4TH MAY. LOCAL ELECTIONS ARE BEING HELD ALL OVER ENGLAND AND THAT WILL BE YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO EXPRESS YOUR VIEWS ON THIS JUDGMENT. A CONSERVATIVE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR EDUCATION SENT LAWYERS TO THIS PLACE TO ARGUE FOR THE JUDGMENT THAT WAS HANDED DOWN TODAY AND SHE NOW HAS THAT JUDGMENT. THEY WON, BUT WE GET TO VOTE ON THAT VICTORY ON MAY 4TH.

VOTE TO REMOVE PEOPLE LIKE COLIN NOBLE THE CONSERVATIVE LEADER OF SUFFOLK COUNTY COUNCIL WHO ISSUED MORE PENALTY NOTICES TO PARENTS LAST YEAR THAN ANY OTHER COUNCIL – 6000 OF THEM. I’D URGE YOU TO VOTE FOR A GREEN PARTY CANDIDATE IF AT ALL POSSIBLE BUT IF ONE ISN’T STANDING IN YOUR AREA VOTE FOR A LIB DEM OR AN INDEPENDENT. MOST COUNCIL SEATS ARE HELD BY VERY SMALL MAJORITIES. A FEW HUNDRED PARENTS IN EACH COUNCIL WARD COULD CHANGE THE FACE OF LOCAL POLITICS ALL OVER ENGLAND IN LESS THAN A MONTH. IF EVERYONE WHO HAS RECEIVED ONE OF THESE PENALTY NOTICES WAS TO VOTE GREEN, THIS GOVERNMENT WOULD PASS EMERGENCY LEGISLATION OVERNIGHT TO REVERSE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS JUDGMENT HERE TODAY.

PLEASE VOTE ON 4TH MAY AND TELL THIS GOVERNMENT THAT WE AS PARENTS WILL BE THE FINAL ARBITERS OF WHAT IS RIGHT FOR OUR CHILDREN - NOT THE STATE.

https://www.facebook.com/schoolfines...87548108107943

Thanks Jack, that's a good read

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 9274000)

Ridiculous and it's always the hard working, dedicated parents who get made examples of, not the ones who are genuinely taking the piss

Yeah this.There are people who don't give a **** if there kids go to school or not and don't encourage their work etc or help them.But the decent parents who just wanna give the kids a break in the sun(which is probably good for them) are persecuted.Not everyone can or wants to pay the holiday time prices.It also gives travel companies alot of power to rip us all off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey (Post 9274021)

Yep definitely. Parents should be reported at the schools own discretion imo, If the child is missing massive amounts of school, falling behind on their work etc then report the parents but otherwise it's a joke really.

I'm not even sure what the law is on it over here, if there is a law like that they don't really enforce it, i don't think, I've often took my kids off school for things and nothing was ever said

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9273999)

Is it the teachers decision to close the school...Would that not be the LEA?

It is the LEA who close schools....inset days, election days etc but also the LEA who issue the fines

Good.
Our generation never thought about taking the kids out of school for a holiday.
Such feelings of entitlement these days.

If he thought for a minute he would win against this govt he's crazy. The proles can't be seen to be beating the 'ministry'

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9274043)

If he thought for a minute he would win against this govt he's crazy. The proles can't be seen to be beating the 'ministry'

Is this a 1984 quote?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 9273987)

I agree with this. Teachers go on strike now and then, so if they are so concerned about students education why are they forcing them to have a day off because they want more money etc (teachers shouldn't be allowed to do this, they get paid during the holidays ffs, nurses/firemen/police are the ones that can do strikes since they save and risk their lifes to protect our country)

the holidays thing must have got stricter because I was allowed to go to spain for 2 weeks when i was in primary and i was going 4 weeks before exams.

Horrifying. Yet another reason to be grateful that the education & courts systems are devolved in Scotland :umm2:.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeB (Post 9274049)

Teachers don't issue the fines, it's the local authority, teachers as well as any other worker has a right to take strike action if all other courses of action have been explored

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey (Post 9274021)

Education welfare officers follow up on child absence, again this is not the schools job (unless they are an academy) its down to the Local Authority.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 9274000)

Ridiculous and it's always the hard working, dedicated parents who get made examples of, not the ones who are genuinely taking the piss

funny you should say this since this happened at my school, someone who was there all the time got into a bit of trouble but someone who wags it, gets let off.

I love how teachers always get it in the neck even for decisions not taken by them, only the Head can make a decision on time off, only the LEA issue fines, only the Education Welfare officer can follow up on absent children etc etc....

all because teachers get long holidays...if it were such a great job why is it so difficult to recruit and retain teachers especially in secondary schools?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 9273987)

Each term has a set number of days that the students must attend, these do not include inset days, so technically inset days are not "term time"

Quote:

Originally Posted by smudgie (Post 9274040)

Good.
Our generation never thought about taking the kids out of school for a holiday.
Such feelings of entitlement these days.

Entitlement to have authority over your own children? Umm yeah.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by smudgie (Post 9274040)

Good.
Our generation never thought about taking the kids out of school for a holiday.
Such feelings of entitlement these days.

It's always sad when people are willing to part with their rights in order to take a potshot at another generation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9274075)

It's always sad when people are willing to part with their rights in order to take a potshot at another generation.

I don't mean it as a potshot Dezzy.
I think more of the rights for the child to have a full education, if even a couple of kids in any one classroom go on holiday out of official school holidays it can throw the whole class off course.
Teacher having to play catch up with the kids that have been away etc.
I do sympathise with the hike in cost of a holiday in peak times, but it won't hurt to find a cheaper form of holiday.
Plenty of kids out there whose parents can't afford to go to Disney and the likes but manage to give their kids a decent enough holiday, even if it is camping.
Quality time together is the important factor for me.:shrug:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey (Post 9273985)

And he's depriving his daughter of some of her education.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jennyjuniper (Post 9274113)

And he's depriving his daughter of some of her education.

I'm sure the daughter was devastated over the deprivation

Is a week such a problem,when I was at school,not that long ago,often one or more were off ill for a week or more.
Once back, it was easy to catch up and often little is done some weeks anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 9274124)

Is a week such a problem,when I was at school,not that long ago,often one or more were off ill for a week or more.
Once back, it was easy to catch up and often little is done some weeks anyway.

Exactly.A week is nothing really aslong as its not an important exam week or something.Sometimes you can be working on the same topic for 2,3,4 weeks.Atleast when i was in school anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smudgie (Post 9274111)

A week or two isn't going to affect a kid's education though never mind anyone else's, it's not like they're going on a six month expedition to Peru. In Year 9, I was off school for two months and it didn't affect my education enough to prevent me from exceeding expectations in my exams that year.

If it's that much of a concern then surely the school could provide handouts for what was missed so the parents that insisted on taking them out of school can help catch them up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9274223)

Providing the parents were willing to do this it would probably solve the problem.
I can't really see parents paying to go to Disney or any other holiday wanting to spend the time doing school catch up though.
Our daughter was off school from June until after the Christmas term through ill health but we were lucky enough to be able to keep her up to date with her school work. The school were very helpful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 9274118)

I'm sure the daughter was devastated over the deprivation

Come on,
its better than Florida Disney

lol as if the child would even remember what they did in those couple of weeks by the end of the year anyway, or even by the end of the term

in fact i think i left school every day not even remembering what we did that morning, i still managed to get a and a*s in all but two of my subjects throughout gcse and a level

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkbBHIhWEAA6Bmh.jpg

these r all u need guys

My sister had to pay a fine for taking her daughters to Mexico.

So what happened that government debate in Parliament a couple of years ago? Back then they said they were making plans to stop holiday companies and airways hiking up the prices during school holidays.