Increasingly thinly-veiled outright hate speech on TiBB
 

Are we allowed to talk about this, or is it "not allowed because it's talking about other members"?

This thread will probably be deleted but that's not really an issue because it will be deleted by a moderator or an admin and that's really who it's for.

You have a problem here and if you guys aren't already talking behind the scenes about doing something about it, you need to be, it is going to get out of control.

This is quickly going way beyond "opinions and freedom of speech".

That's all I have to say, really.

You know you're in for a bad time when the accusation of racism is worse than actually being racist (or discriminatory in any way)

We need examples and links.

im conf

Do you :idc:

Are you :idc:

____from2005?

100% agree TS

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

At the end of the day, some people are just speaking sense and from the heart, about our current predicament.

Its people's opinions. This is a forum, by definition, a discussion of opinions. Just because you hypersensitively perceive them to be racist doesn't mean they are.

Some people don't bury their heads in the sand, and they should not be accused of evil intent for not doing so.

shut it.

I'm not really thinking specifics at all, I'm talking about a quite obvious recent trend for people "testing and pushing the boundaries of what they can get away with saying" and finding that the answer is "So long as it's not about other members, you can say whatever the hell you want".

And this is being applauded as freedom of speech, except that it's false, and broken, because if you started saying the things that these people are saying in public (or on any other form of social media) people would be shouting you down for it. But on here... you can say what you want "so long as it's in general" and no one can say anything about it, cos that's talking about other members. It's a moderation system that is completely and utterly ****ing broken but it's being stuck to like it's some sort of religious doctrine.

The way I see it, a choice has to be made here. Either abandon the "can't talk about each other" rule OR introduce at least SOME sort of rules about general hate speech. Or secret option #3 (and of course exactly what is going to happen): Ignore it and have the place spiral into nothing BUT hate speech.

"I'm entitled to my opinions, and how dare you have opinions about my opinions".

well said!

Do you know what a liberal friend said to me last night. "This happens in Syria on a daily basis and worse".

Typical "it's not a big deal" liberal attitude.

I won't thinly veil my hate for terrorist scum.
So bite me.

...Lord, I don't even know how to start with that OP/post and I'm not used to posting/gathering my thoughts for posting atm..so I'll just say (as best as I can..)...the 'all I have to say' and leave it at that...

...there is a 'problem' for sure because there is a 'problem' in the world atm and the forum reflects that...but I personally don't see it as a problem that can be focused on any particular people with exclusion to others who are focusing on those...everyone and without exception are naturally concerned for their lives, for the lives of others etc...I think that's something we all are agreed on, we don't though all have the same thoughts and reasoning on what we feel is 'blame' and because of that we all have different opinions at what we feel it would take to try to move toward a safer world...no one is all right in their views, whatever their views are and no one is all wrong in them either..but no one seems to listen, I mean really listen to anyone says...they just label and accuse, they pigeon-hole, rather than question/rather than communicate and communication/listening/dissecting etc is THE ONLY way in any possibility of moving forward...

...should we just remove everyone from the forum whose opinions/whose values oppose our own, is that going to move anything forward from this negative world we're in atm...my personal opinion is, is that 'shouting down'/accusing because we may feel a person is intolerant is as bad as walking away from something which we should be trying to take opportunities to understand...understanding takes steps forward to being able to communicate and (possibly) have people listen to us as well..?...have we learned nothing from the presidency of Trump becoming real...?...the people who voted for him because 'he listened to them'...would it have happened, had people not felt they couldn't talk about their concerns and fears without judgement, when everyone is as fearful as each other../there is only differing views on 'cause/and effect', type thing...sorting through all of the ..oh, it's the immigrants/no it's not, it's intolerance is surely something that is necessary for our world and for any steps forward...?...and the same with Brexit, if some voted because of concerns on immigration..?...whether anyone agrees/disagrees or whatever...judging those people for their concerns, throwing up of hands in the air and the refusal to try to understand led to a pretty extreme vote from many...so do we not all bear a responsibility for that..?.../I personally think so...(my opinion of course..)..is that what all of our focus should be is to look at ourselves and our own contribution's to the world we live in and stop judging others and to start listening and really trying communication over judgement...because there really doesn't seem to be a 'side' atm that is 'in the right'....

I'm pretty sure everyone on this forum hates terrorists.

I would agree with you Ammi if, like I said in my last post, we actually were allowed to have that discussion. As it stands, you're allowed to say "it's immigrants" (and anything you want to say about those immigrants) but the flipping you're talking about - mentioning intolerance, pointing out when someone is being intolerant, is expressly forbidden as "making comments about other members" and will get you banned.

So I can only go back to what I originally said. Either there has to be more acceptance for people calling out each other's opinions - which may include personal comments - or there needs to be SOME sort of limitation on the level of hate speech that is tolerated. I'm not saying ban anyone. I'm not saying disallow opinions that immigration is to blame. I'm saying that there are comments that go far beyond that and they are increasing in number, confidence, and severity and will continue to do so, because the people doing it are starting to feel untouchable. It's a problem that's only going to get worse.

Just making sure my views can't be considered "thinly veiled".
We all have our own opinions, we are all entitled to our own opinions, and we shouldn't try to shut down other people opinions by throwing out insults to them that hold them.

Well said TS....looks like something happened last night that i don't know about....as an Afrkaaner reading here lately is stomach churing...why people just can't grow a set of balls and say "i'm racist "is beyond me.Coming from a Boer I know racism when I see it ...and it is thriving here

How could anyone disagree with that ? trouble is some people think they know better than anyone else which is fine,but please don't force those opinions on me.

Do you know what my hard core righty friend said to me last night? "We should just round up all of the brown people and set them on fire".

Typical violent racist right wing attitude.


Hey look we didn't mention any forum members and therefore these posts are fine! Hooraaaay.

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

Thank you Lime, at least your opinion won't be simply dismissed as PC.

I was on here last night have to admit I saw nothing untowards just people giving their opinions:shrug: but I suppose I could have missed something

This is heartbreaking to read, I guess I wouldnt ever be comfortable calling somebody a racist because its hard to imagine tibb posts entirely reflecting any single person.
But I guess racism is a scale, and people are increasingly climbing that ladder. Its devastating to see that you, and probably others, feel as if some members have crossed the threshold.

..I'm not really sure what making comments about other people would achieve other than some personal gratification or satisfaction maybe.../maybe a relief of some frustration../who knows..?...only the person feeling the need I guess...but I reckon that the comments being objected to are being made with frustration as well so it really is all rather pointless, rather than taking the opportunity to actually try to understand where their views are coming from....(it seems to me to be a 'problem that's getting worse' )..because of the contribution of many in not being listened to....

I think all views are best aired to an extent obviously within legal reasoning. It's the only way to continue educating both ourselves and others. Shutting down people's views allows them to fester and grow....only by discussing and debating can fears and Descrimination be tackled head on.

Agree with this. I've seen a handful of racist posts but not many, really, and they've been - to my knowledge - dealt with.

The OP is presumably more frustrated with the buck-passing peddled by tabloids, which is understandable.

...:love:..I recall reading many articles after the unthinkable happened of Donald Trump being elected..?...and the thing that came across more than anything else was how 'invisible' many had felt in their fears and concerns and in their problems and how in-listened to they felt they were...that I think is a very 'dangerous world' to live in ....just look where it's all leading atm for the whole human race, how much it's contributing....

There have been comments on here that, if aired in public, could legitimately result in an arrest for hate speech and incitement to violence. But people will dismiss that as "PC Gone mad, stifling of free speech", so that's why I've tried to steer clear of the actual legality of things.

Again, there is no discussion. We're not allowed to tackle it. Telling someone that you believe their views to be horrendous and discriminatory is "passing personal comment" and therefore not allowed.

Ammi; I'm not sure where you've got the idea that be "personal comments" I mean throwing around Insults... All I mean is directly being able to address people's posts and share an opinion on that post, and an opinion on that person for making that post. That is discussion, that is part of these issues being addressed. It is specifically not allowed. Reiterating, again: people can say whatever they want "in general" without fear of anyone expressing a negative opinion of them, personally, for their abhorrent views. It doesn't work. It isn't working. There is abundant evidence of it not working. This forum is increasingly, by the day, full of smug entitled racism. That is MY opinion and I am as entitled to it as anyone else, though I'm sure I'll be accused of "thinking I'm always right" for...what? For not agreeing with THEM. If it wasn't such mind-blowingly frustrating hypocrisy it would actually be funny.

Members have strong opinions on both sides.

Terrorist want people to hate each other.

:clap1: This is the post of this thread. I can only urge the OP to really read it, and others here too. That was so very well put, much admiration for you Ammi, and welcome back.

Terrorists want people to hate and fear Muslims because a Muslim who is hated and feared is easier to recruit. They don't care what anyone else thinks of each other.

They are winning. :clap1:

I have read it and I agree with plenty of it, I've stated in countless threads that I fully believe in freedom of speech, but as much as I adore Ammi and her posts, she is overlooking my point exactly as you are.

That point being that there is a line. There needs to be a line, somewhere, between free speech and hate speech and that line is being crossed. Not often, not in every thread, not even every day maybe, but it is an increasing trend that needs to be addressed before it gets totally out of hand. That is what my OP says. Draw that line BEFORE this gets way out of hand. The line is unclear and there is a huge problem looming, plenty of people can see it.

The problem with that TS if I can be blunt is that I think you're finger pointing and that is also not nice. Shutting down dialogue isn't the way. I used to agree with a lot of your posts until you began throwing round veiled accusations at people. :shrug: I will agree with you that there are some posts that are inappropriate but so is all the finger pointing and it isn't always in the right place.

There are wise words in the post below also.

If you see a post and think its racist report it!
Mods do a great job.

Or if you see sarcasm, report that too, they also do a job on that.

This sarcastic post will bring me another infraction.

I've seen a lot of people saying **** like that, and I just don't get it, don't people remember the events of WWII? It was less than 100 ****ing years ago, yet everyone seems ready to repeat history.

I've seen no hate speech on here,just people with very different opinions:shrug:

Frankly jaxie, they're only "veiled" because naming names isn't allowed. There are people who deserve to have a finger pointed at them because the things they are saying, cross a line. I feel like I'm not doing anything but repeating the same things now, though... there are people who can see what I'm seeing and that at least is some comfort. If I was making these posts expecting everyone to know what I'm talking about, then there wouldn't be a problem in the first place.