Gunmen dressed in Burkhas kill students in Pakisstan
 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...llege-pakistan

This is yet another exmple of why the safety of the MANY should get priority over the rights of the FEW ie to wear clothing in public places that poses a very real security risk, especially in such dangerous times. It is a disaster waiting to happen in the West.

It annoys the hell out of me that some people think they have the right to expose others to this risk and/or defend their ‘rights’ to do so. Time this particular risk was reduced. What a tragic waste of life.

Absolutely awful.
R.I.P.
So much hate in this world.

My thoughts to all those in Pakistan affected by this massacre.

What's the solution in your opinion?

freakin disgusting :yuk:

rip :(

Isn’t it obvious - ban the wearing of any item of clothing that covers the face and therefore identity, including religious dress, in all public places in Britain. Public safety should get priority over other issues.

Its tragic what happened in Pakistan but if this thread is just another old chestnut about how Muslim women dress in the UK, can I just ask, how much more can we talk about this?

Maybe it's obvious to you, but not so much to me. I disagree with your solution; how many people have been killed by people wearing the specific kind of clothing that covers the face?

When we see terrorists using vehicles to mow down innocents, is our first reaction that the obvious solution is to ban cars? If people want to cause damage to society, they don't need a Burka to do it.

We will see - I hope you are right.

As much as is needed I guess. Preferable to brushing it under the carpet in my opinion just to appease others.

Surely the thread is more to do with the problem/worry that men can dress as women in a burkha.:shrug:

I think we should be just as worried by the idea that women are indoctrinated to a point to believe that their appearance needs to be hidden or they are in some way loose and immoral, but that's probably another thread.

So sorry for anyone slaughtered by monsters in the name of fantasy. Such a senseless waste of innocent life. If the intent is there they will find some other way to hide.

Exactly. It isn’t rocket science. If we get used to seeing groups of women in Burkhas and pay them no mind or feel intimidated by PC into not questiong them being in certain areas, as we know does happen, it would make it much easier for terrorists to get access to areas that a group of young Muslim men hiding weapons (ie wearing bulky clothing/rucksacks) would find more difficult.

So you see a bunch of people in Burkas, and you're worried about feeling intimidated by the PC brigade stopping you from monitoring their activities?

Let's just pretend for one second (I know my theory is a massive reach, but go with it) that a bunch of women are walking around the city center minding their own business, sharing gossip about their husbands and mother-in-laws, taking their kids out for the day etc, but then they are being followed and monitored by random dudes on the street; would you think that would be more intimidating then the PC brigade stomping all over your imagined rights to be able to monitor other citizens?

What is more likely, a bunch of women on a day out? Or a group of men hiding guns? We live with all kinds of risks throughout our day, we run across the road when cars are coming, we go out in storms, and we get in flying metal boxes, so until these crazy gangs of Burka-killers become a real on-going problem, then I'm happy keeping my underwear dry about the whole issue.

Who is this guy? Can we keep him.

Banning the burqa isnt going to stop terrorism. We never considered banning jeans when Mair murdered Cox, we never considered banning tshirts when Abedi bombed Manchester Arena, so I'd argue that your problem is more to do with Islam in general than the clothing of terrorists. And thats just a little bit sad.

equally, they could dress up as police officers, army etc etc etc .... criminals have been dressing up in disguise for generations, our reaction has never been to ban what they are mimicking

You never see students with rucksacks?

Talk about twisting my words. When did I mention following women wearing Burkhas. But I do know that security guards have spoken of not questioning women in bu4khas in banks and other such places due to feeling uncomfortable about doing so. It does show that it could pose a problem in other situations too as people will play on that. I am clearly talking about the police, security guards and other relevant personnel monitoring potential security risks not the general public acting like Miss Marple and following people around.

Of course we run all sorts of risks in an average day but until recently Muslim terrorism was a lot less likely. Surely the above article shows how easy it could be in the West especially with growing PC and the religious, modesty and PC implications of questioning women wearing Burkhas.

If you think Muslim terrorists won’t use that to their advantage you would be very naive and you don’t sound naive to me. Besides they already have. They have proved they will use whatever simple method they can - they are not particular. Anything that has the desired effect as there are plenty of vulnerable public places.

True.

As long as face covering clothing isn't allowed in areas that could be a safety risk (which is often the case anyway), there's no reason to ban them completely.

Reactionary law changes are never a good idea.

I don't believe I've twisted your words, I've highlighted a couple of remarks from your previous post that might help you understand where I got that impression from.

If you're saying it's bad that we don't pay women wearing burka's any mind, and by association, we just let them go about their business, then what is the opposite of what you're saying is a bad thing? If ignoring them is bad, then...?

If you think not questioning Muslim women in certain areas (whatever that actually means), is a bad thing, then...?

How big of a threat do you actually think Muslim terrorism is? We have people stabbing each other with knives on a daily basis and no one gives a damn. We have sex crimes on the rise, and no one follows priests around.

Is Muslim terrorism a problem? Yes, absolutely. Should it give you or I the right to takes rights away from people because they have the same imaginary friend? Absolutely not.

You can't win an ideological debate by oppressing people. Here's the real kicker, if you want to combat the root cause of religious terrorism, you need to work with the people that actually follow that religion.

Plenty of countries have banned them because they see them as a secunity threat. Anything that covers the face is.

What is to stop someone, anyone, donning a Burkha under which is hidden a weapon or a bomb and walking into a department store for instance. My point is is that due to the sensitivity of issues such as religion, female modesty of Muslim women and PC who Is going to ask them to remove their veil. It could be anyone behind it.

If an attack is carried out or another crime is committed it would also be impossible for witnesses or CCTV to identify and catch them.

How anyone can think it is ok for anyone to walk around in public areas covering their faces and identities in this day and age is beyond me.

How many terrorist attacks have been committed by people wearing a burkha as a disguise?

You could make a case for banning everything out of fear of terrorism but to do so would mean that terrorism wins.

Are you confusing a burqa with Harry Potters invisibility cloak?

Do jeans and tee shirts hide faces and identity then? What the wearing of the Burkha would do is make it harder to identify and catch anyone committing any kind of crime, including terrorism. If you can’t see the difference.

Maybe it would help your case if you knew of one example where a terrorist got away with their crimes because they hid their face and then hid from every other cctv camera he passed on their way out of the crime scene?

You're really just suggesting an impossibly imaginary crime could happen, and we must stop that immediately.

You're looking for a solution to a nonexistent problem. I don't like the veil either, but I don't have any rights to tell another human what they can/can't wear of their own choosing.

Why would you even need a burka to smuggle a bomb into a department store? Just carry it in a bag.

What about those snidey nuns? Could they be carrying bombs under their robes too?

Right but you could hide weapons or a bomb under a large coat, and anyone walking into a department store with a gun or a bomb has no need to cover their identity because they're not planning to make it out alive. Are you suggesting that we should ban large coats, and all other baggy / oversized clothing?

Using a burkha in a terrorist attack in a western country doesn't make much sense anyway, people take notice of people that wear burkhas, surely the point of a disguise in terrorist attacks is to get into a place where the attack will happen without raising suspicion?

Withano's points about T-shirts and Jeans is true, nobody looks twice at someone in normal clothes.

thats very true, i remember after the tube bombings, anyone with a rucksack was watched constantly

Fair point about the bag. But covering faces should be a Nono and nuns don’t cover their faces. Faces are our identity and trained personnel can tell a lot about peoples’ behaviours/intentions from their facial expressions and general body language. Both are completely hidden by a Burkha.

Although I agree in principle with people choosing what they wear, like anything there have to be exceptions and wearing garments that cover identity have to be amongst them.

You must have an annual breakdown on the 31st of October

The original story that opinion piece is talking about doesn't have anything to do with terrorism? The imaginary links to terrorism is provided by the Fox News writer.

You should really read your links before you post 'em.

Did you misread my post or that article / rhetorical

Fox news is well known for their measured approach to Muslims.

To be fair here, it WOULD be hard to identify someone on cctv if they were covering their face. Same as it would be hard to identify someone who, for example, walked into a shop with a motorcycle helmet on.

But I don't really think banning anything is the answer here. If security guards are worried about stopping people in burkhas, they need to (excuse the phrase, it just works best here) man the **** up.

I have to be honest here though, I do think anywhere that requires cctv...people should not be able to cover their face. This would include the likes of shopping centres and such. You would not be able to go shopping in a balaclava. But at the same time, this would mean a lot of Muslim women could not go shopping or anything which is kind of unfair too. So I don't know the answer really :S

It suffiiciently clarifies all the reasons why such a garment should not be allowed in the West including its use by terrorists and criminals.

The garment is as offensive to many women as the robes of the KKK are to many black people and that would not be allowed on our streets. As it is categorically not a requirement of Islam for women to wear it then religious reasons are not even relevant.

Not really, cctv can follow their movements for hours really, before and after the attack. Unless their attack is in some secluded area, which would probably make it even easier cos they'd likely get there and get away by car.