What does feminism mean to you?
 

There's loads of debates as to wether Courtney can be a feminist because she's a man that dresses as a woman
People think Ann saying women are equal already doesn't make her a feminist

And obviously Donal Trump recent stated he wasn't a feminist

So what does the word and movement mean to you, and by your definition are you a feminist?

...for me it means equality../..equal free choices and opportunities etc for males and equal free choices and opportunities etc for females, regardless of gender...

Equality!

We teach girls to shrink themselves, to make themselves smaller
We say to girls: "You can have ambition, but not too much
You should aim to be successful, but not too successful
Otherwise, you will threaten the man"
Because I am female, I am expected to aspire to marriage
I am expected to make my life choices
Always keeping in mind that marriage is the most important
Now, marriage can be a source of joy and love and mutual support
But why do we teach girls to aspire to marriage
And we don't teach boys the same?
We raise girls to see each other as competitors
Not for jobs or for accomplishments, which I think can be a good thing
But for the attention of men
We teach girls that they cannot be sexual beings in the way that boys are
Feminist: a person who believes in the social, political
And economic equality of the sexes

:clap1:

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Im with Donald

Thanks :shrug:

:clap1:

you did not provide a link to what you copied


:douf:

Excellent FireWire. Very, very true!

Is it necessary?

And besides you copied the wrong thing

Don't thank me, thank Chimamanda.

Beautiful :love:

Feminism to me is about liberating women from oppression tbh. I know many will scoff at that and say women are not oppressed but I disagree. Yes it is much better for female people in this country than it is elsewhere but not many people truly see men and women as equal, so many still see women as something thats just there for mens amusement. Also womens rights (that we currently have) are almost constantly under attack (a good recent example if this push to eliminate female only spaces and services and let people 'self identify' their sex), so those claiming feminism is no longer needed are wrong.

I do think part of womens oppression is based in nature though. We are the weaker sex, we will be dominated in certain areas of life and thats pretty impossible to prevent. But I feel a lot of the way a lot of men behave towards women is 'taught' and not nature. From the second it is announced 'its a girl/boy' the child is treat differently. This needs to stop really, else we will never get anywhere. I try to bring up my kids exactly the same but even though I am consciously trying to do this, I do slip up as the behaviour expected of males and females is so deeply ingrained...its hard to shift.

This went on a bit longer than I planned it too tbh, and possibly went offtopic too. Its hard to talk ab out feminism on here with so many people waiting to jump on you if you say the wrong thing. From all angles.

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I studied this a bit years ago in a nature nurture debate and babies are treated very differently from the moment they are born. There is no denying it. Parents don’t even know they are doing it. It’s so ingrained. The conditioning continues from then on in in our expectations of them, the toys we buy them etc. Men in particular have a tendency to treat their daughters differently especially when they reach the teenage years and it has always annoyed the heck out of me.

I had no end of falling-outs with my mother over this, she was more old-school, but always stuck to my guns and would not be told how to live my life. When I had children I only had boys and always felt quite protective of them but can’t imagine treating them any different from a daughter. I would have the same dreams and expectations for both and hope they did things their way.

yes its forum decorum to link to anything you cut and paste so that people are not confused between your own posts and that of others


as you already know

I wouldn't call myself a feminist by "today's standards". I mean, of course I believe in equality for both genders, but when Modern Feminism(tm) thinks equally qualified men and women get paid differently for doing the same work+same hours, focus on issues which don't matter like how men sit instead of real issues, and ally themselves with islam, it's hard to take it seriously.

and they say in Scotland

A man is not a man until he has a daughter

I would like to think people aren't that stupid

or that posters are trying to pass off other peoples work

I agree with this; I have little time for "popular modern-day feminism" because it's reactionary and not evidence-based... it's a lot of people jabbering about things they've heard other people say as if it's hard fact. Which makes it pretty worthless.

"Women get paid 9% less than men for the same job!!"
"How do you know?"
"I read it on Facebook yesterday."
"Do you have a link to ANY actual official stats that back up this claim?"
"NO and you are SEXIST for even asking."


It drives me nuts. Give me a topic that can actually be debated, a problem that can actually be studied and addressed, and I'm all for it. If you've got little more than "Stuff is bad and it's bad that stuff is bad, and it's even worse that you won't join me in complaining about the bad stuff!!" then I just... can't.

Have a real, tangible, evidence based issue and want to find ways to address that issue? Great!

Just feeling peeved and want to rant and everyone to feel angry and / or guilty along with you but with no actual utility or positive end goal? No I'm not really interested I'm afraid.

...I’m not scoffing, Vicky...I promise you I’m not but I do think it’s sometimes tricky to define oppression because surely in some cultures for instance...we may feel we see oppression but that female doesn’t necessarily feel oppression because they feel they’re making their own choices within their own culture and beliefs ...so we have to respect that also otherwise, we would become the oppressors ourselves, if that makes sense...that doesn’t mean there aren’t some things though that protection against isn’t needed with our laws etc...hmmm, I’m also not sure I agree with ‘so many still see women there as men’s amusement’...yes there are some obviously who do have that mindset and there are laws to protect also..but I don’t think it’s a ‘many’ thing, and a more generalised and extensive thing for the male mindset today...and that then also risks taking back feminism a little as well because it could be perceived as indicating a low opinion of males felt by ‘the feminist females’...so then things start to hinder rather than progress forward because it could create a resistance to femism...

I was just gonna post this bit :joker:

There has always been, and there always will be, resistance to feminism. Especially when papers such as the mail make out that all feminists are hairy ugly fat man haters. And people eat that up.

This is currently a wildly inaccurate definition.

Ok then so what does it mean

...well various media demonisation of many, many things is all of our ‘daily fight’, I guess we could say..:laugh:...

There is a very real and present backlash against modern feminism because modern feminism is more based in anger and retribution than in progression or finding solutions; partly because people feel duty-bound to engage in something that they don't have the time nor inclination to actually try to understand in anything but the most superficial depth, and partly due to being hijacked by individuals who, frankly, just enjoy being combative activists and would actually be completely lost if true equality was achieved and they no longer had "their defining cause".

Pretending that backlash doesn't exist, or that it is baseless, is dangerous and will erode any progress towards actual diversity. When people quite brazenly "don't care" about that and reserve the right to "be angry and rant" - I have to question whether their motivation really is equality at all, or if the kick they get from the rant itself is somehow more important.

Modern feminism? It doesn't have a fixed definition; and that's 90% of the problem.

'Modern feminism'..can you define what that is to you please? I know you say it has no fixed definition, but can you give an example beyond the gender pay gap (which I am not sure exists in reality)

Modern feminism to me is all this sex positive liberal feminism stuff...and I would agree that thats mainly bull****.

Second wave is where its at, for me. 'Radical feminism' (which does not mean extremist like I thought it did until recently)..actually about womens rights and liberation. None of this ridiculous identity politics post modern bollocks.

There’s no such thing as “modern feminism”

Feminism is what Jonathan posted, the issue you have is with SJW who take things to the extreme, label it as feminism and then people begin to resent what feminism actually is

Radical feminism is such a small part of feminism yet does seem to have become the most vocal and a reason why people distance themselves from the word and words like "Feminazi" come about

...it’s just odd really with the F1 grid girl thing atm as well...and we’re defining femism as equal choice which obviously it is...but then when that choice is given, which it is to the grid girls..we’re saying no, we need to ban that, you can’t do it ...and why do we want it banned, well it’s not you actually, it’s those awful men so blame them for banning you and taking away your choice of that unique experience...

Nah. Thats because of what smithy said. Some people being loudmouths and blaming it on feminism tbh. Nothing wrong with radical feminism as its actually supposed to be.

The radical feminism you seem to have in mind is

What is wrong with just being an individualist, if we have to be tagged with any label at all.
I am just me.

...I’m going to start promoting smudgism as a thing actually...we should all be more smudgie..:lovedup:..

How is Smudgie supposed to be an individualist if we all turn more Smudgie? :think:

...we’re going to foil her plans, Withano...shhhhh, I thought that one had slipped by without her noticing...