Four options left - What should be done with Brexit?
 

Personally, I think the only sensible thing we can do is revoke article 50. That, at the very least, gives us the option to try this again if we must when we have a more capable government in charge. The magic deal May seems so insistent on delivering has zero support by anybody, despite the fact that the public doesn't really have a clue what it involves and No Deal promises to completely change the face of Britain for the worst apart from in the eyes that arguably have their own agendas. Sadly though, I think it is the option that will end up happening as May is too pig headed to consider anything else.

4 options

:suspect:

Rob are you Diane Abbott?

Just agree to a deal and get on with it.

I know, I forgot about the ref option until I got to the poll bit :blush:

Should revoke A50 with the promise of a new referendum when there is an actual plan to leave.

Time for another referendum, it's clear the government cannot decide for themselves, so it falls to the population instead, and this time put actual options on the ballot.

I meant to vote second referendum oops

I think it needs to be a second referendum instead of revoking article 50, otherwise the leavers will get super salty and probably start rioting. Remain will probably win by like 60%+ and that should shut them up until somebody has a valid idea we can discuss against remaining.

Hard Brexit. The only people who want a second referendum are those who want to remain and those who couldn't be arsed to vote in the first referendum.

Democracy has spoken. We need to leave.

Not true tbh.

Many leavers are looking at the mess and saying that they would now vote completely differently.

“Democracy has spoken” is such an odd thing to say when actively voting against democracy.

“Democracy has spoken so democracy must never speak again” ?? Odd.

Anecdotal evidence is not useful here.


Remainers seem to have lost their grasp of what democracy means. It's not open to interpretation.

That time we only ever had one election because Livia kicked up a fuss about the first one being democratic so the rest are not.

Neither is denial from the facts.

It's unlikely that we're going to continue with referendum after referendum until we reach the result you prefer.

Imagine if 'remain' had won and Brexiters started demanding another referendum. I can imagine what your reaction would be. YOU would be lecturing ME about democracy.

You haven't presented any facts. That's my point.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8521346.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/poll...18-4?r=US&IR=T

Just a couple of the multitude of opinions on the subject that took me about 2.5 seconds to find on Google. Opening your eyes may well show you more.

The last time I heard the prof guy from Glasgow uni (who is the referendum voting expert) he said that a new ref would garner the exact same result so he would advise strongly against it

^^^The new study was carried out by data analysis experts Focaldata for pro-EU campaign group Best for Britain.


er

People voted for leave having no idea what it would entail, forecasts have shown that the UK will be worse off regardless of any deal, why should people be denied a vote now they know the facts?

The only people that don’t want a second referendum are leavers who are terrified that people have realized what a **** show this is and will vote to remain

You could well be right, but why do you think there is such opposition to putting up a brexit leave plan up against a remain?

A second referendum would be a blow to the heart of our parliamentary democracy. It would introduce the principle – elitist to the core – that the legitimacy of a political decision rests upon a judgment about the knowledge that informed it. And it would rely on a dirty plebiscitarianism as a way out of the political impasse in Westminster. Those arguing for a second referendum should be careful what they wish for. Chaos is rarely a harbinger of good outcomes.

• Chris Bickerton teaches politics at Cambridge University

https://www.theguardian.com/global/c...y-peoples-vote

It's not my job to prove your point, Rob. I could post half a dozen newspaper articles with a views in 180deg opposition to these.

No one is asking for third or fourth votes, only Theresa May does that.

A second referendum would be a blow to the heart of our parliamentary democracy. It would introduce the principle – elitist to the core – that the legitimacy of a political decision rests upon a judgment about the knowledge that informed it. And it would rely on a dirty plebiscitarianism as a way out of the political impasse in Westminster. Those arguing for a second referendum should be careful what they wish for. Chaos is rarely a harbinger of good outcomes.

• Chris Bickerton teaches politics at Cambridge University

https://www.theguardian.com/global/c...y-peoples-vote


Chris disagrees with you

There wasn't a concrete plan to leave first time around. Do you agree with that?

I'm not talking about a general leave or remain referendum, I'm talking about get a brexit plan together and put that on a ballot against remaining.

Would that really be an attack on democracy?

Neither leave nor remain had any idea what was going on because it wasn't presented to us. But people with a brain looked into the likely impacts of no deal, they considered exports and imports, at least I did before I voted. And not just leavers, remainers too... but there are small pockets on both sides who think the other side are complete morons. I guess you're in that group.

I agree with Chris.

I'm not asking you to prove my point. It's a point that is evident from the many people who are saying it. Denying they exist is hardly beneficial is it?

People with a brain might have, a lot of people however were riled up with right wing nonsense and a bus saying 350million pound would go to the NHS. People who voted leave were lied to. Fact.

Sack all our current mp's and get a new lot in that actually reflect the views of their constituents

DO you think any one is lied to in general elections?

Do you remember Tony Blair?

Don't ever ask for a second Scottish ref in your lifetime then

I have faith in the wisdom of crowds, I don't subscribe to the thinking that anyone who wasn't of the same mind as me is an idiot. Nor am I impressed by right wing nonsense. Every time that bus appeared people were criticising it. I don't know anyone who was taken in by it. The truth is, remain lost the referendum. And that's it.

I'm sick of hearing about that bloody bus , it had zero to do with how i voted or anyone else i know , i've been waiting years for this vote and mine went back by return of post.

"Many leavers are looking at the mess and saying that they would now vote completely differently."

That's what you said initially. I know many leavers and they're all adamant that we leave, like the referendum result said. The only people I hear saying they want to remain are remainers.

Nobody is denying that. But don't you think that we now know more about the potential results that we did the first time the question was put to us? Surely that means that we deserve a second say at the very least? The definition of democracy is that we're allowed to change our minds as Theresa May so kindly keeps trying to give parliament the opportunity to do. If the UK still wants to leave, then the result surely won't change?

I'd say leave with May's deal, which is (mainly) only a transitional arrangement anyway, and would buy us two more years to find some sort of consensus about the future relationship with the EU.

It would probably end up being soft Brexit one way or another.

Revoke or leave with Norway plus/Canada arrangement