Originally Posted by Alf (Post 11245764)

There really isn't a need for the word "black" in your title. You only need to describe him as "good actor" You wouldn't describe Daniel day Lewis as "Good White actor"

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 11245764)

There really isn't a need for the word "black" in your title. You only need to describe him as "good actor" You wouldn't describe Daniel day Lewis as "Good White actor"

Originally Posted by arista (Post 11245767)

WHY



He is a Good Black Actor


It is because his Family that named him
were Black,
he is in this mess of a Conservative Party in the UK,
first name



I ain't Racist
I ain't Woke

Originally Posted by Christmas Lights (Post 11245771)

For once I agree

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 11245778)

Well that's a good start to the year.

I'll have you on the Trump train by the summertime at this rate.

Originally Posted by Christmas Lights (Post 11245782)

Don't get carried away

But when it comes to politics ,I'm becoming more & more centrist , as both sides p1ss me off .

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 11245764)

There really isn't a need for the word "black" in your title. You only need to describe him as "good actor" You wouldn't describe Daniel day Lewis as "Good White actor"

Originally Posted by arista (Post 11245767)

WHY



He is a Good Black Actor


It is because his Family that named him
were Black,
he is in this mess of a Conservative Party in the UK,
first name



I ain't Racist
I ain't Woke

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock (Post 11245786)

Thankfully.

I swear the racists and the woke people are just as bad as each other when it comes to intolerance.

Originally Posted by the slim reaper (Post 11245833)

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 11245834)

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock (Post 11245786)

Thankfully.

I swear the racists and the woke people are just as bad as each other when it comes to intolerance.

Originally Posted by Christmas Lights (Post 11245885)

Now you know why I'm more centrist

Originally Posted by arista (Post 11245762)

He was just on a great 2018 Movie
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragged_Across_Concrete



On SkyThriller Movies HD


You would think he would change his first name
but I guess little UK
Don't mean much for this good actor.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...mp_Conival.jpg

Originally Posted by James (Post 11245906)

I've just realised this isn't Denzel Washington.

I was very confused.

Originally Posted by arista (Post 11245907)

Tory works just as hard
that 2018 Movie
is great.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ete_poster.jpg

Originally Posted by James (Post 11245906)

I've just realised this isn't Denzel Washington.

I was very confused.

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper (Post 11245833)

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock (Post 11245962)

Fair enough.:laugh:

Seriously though both sides are awful, there isn't such a thing as good racism or good wokeism (if that's a word)

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper (Post 11246058)

The problem, is that they are both constructs coming from the exact same side. "wokeness" started off as a tongue-in-cheek approach to black people knowing their own history. "stay woke." It then became a word used to describe opposition to anything.

You think trans people should be treated with respect? You're woke.
You think masks and vaccines were a good idea? You're woke
You think a policeman kneeling on the neck of a black man and killing him isn't a good thing? Well, you've guessed it - you're woke.

No one calls themselves woke, it is only used by those wishing to diminish or restrict the freedoms of others, to dismiss opposition without explanation or justification.

The government doesn't win a court case - that's because of woke lawyers. You get the picture.

To hold up racism and anti-racism (which is also woke these days) as equally bad concepts, doesn't really make a lot of sense. If WW2 were happening today, then churchill would be woke. Don't fall for stupid, meaningless propagandistic labelling.

Originally Posted by Christmas Lights (Post 11246352)

No
woke no longer means wanting equality & respect, now when I think of woke ...I think of self entitled people demanding others to do what they say .

Wokeism is now shoving agenda's down people's throats, and if you dare question or disagree then you're 'cancelled' & a 'bad person ' .

Originally Posted by SantaslettertoMeghan (Post 11246376)

a word means what people think it means in common usage, so everyone is right as it happens

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper (Post 11246378)

It's not about the definition of a word, it's about the propagandistic use of a word to tell people what to think about a political philosophy.

Woke has been redefined to mean - against things that a different group thinks that everyone should feel.


To be fair to the right, it's been completely effective so that pretty much everything these days is woke, as It's being used as a pejorative to describe those who oppose the status quo.

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy (Post 11246442)

I think you're proving the point more than disproving it really -- yes, the word has been sarcastically hijacked by people-of-a-certain-leaning and is fired off as a flippant insult in certain circumstances, by those certain people. The suggestion that that fully sums up what's meant when people say it completely lacks any nuance and is just inaccurate. We know what your Piers Morgans and Andrew Tates mean when they say it, but that's not automatically what it means in all cicumstances. There is a mindset that I can quickly summarise as "woke" and people who I regularly converse with would know what I mean; what you could call "tribal" or "retaliatory" wokeism, I suppose. It follows almost identical social structures as the "opposing side" and that's where I can see what people mean by it all being the same.

To sum it up as VERY briefly as I can - it's social justice without individual rationalisation. If someone can raise a social justice point and explain it in terms that make it clear that THEY understand what they're saying and the reasoning behind it, that is not "woke". If someone stating the exact same point or concept clearly does NOT have an individual unserstanding of what they're parroting, and are simply copy/pasting rhetoric from other people "who think like they do" - that's what I'd call "being woke" personally. Holding a stance of moral superiority but being unable to intellectually justify it without resorting to using other people's words - i.e. being on the "right side" because one has been told "this is the right side, say it with me!" and not because of... well... thinking using their brain.

It actually has little if anything to do with who is right or wrong.

And (of course) the exact same thing prevails on the other side too... people pompously sneering out Jordan peterson rhetoric when they have, clearly, literally no idea what they're talking about.



A strange thing to admit two sentences after trying to offer a definitive and insistant meaning of the word? You said it's been "redefined to mean" but then in this quoted part it seems that you're well aware that this isn't true, it hasn't been redefined, as words are rarely redefined; they gain additional definitions. What you describe as the "redefinition" of the word above is 100% certainly the way that some people choose to weaponise the word but that doesn't make it the only or de facto accepted definition of the word.

Of course the same issue prevails here that's weighed heavily on this forum for years; a dogged denial that the same FUNCTIONAL issues exist in the "mass social discussion" for both the left & right. A tedious, predictable back-and-forth of NPC's with little to zero reasoning and frankly zero intent or interest in providing any reasoning ... because they have none. They have a shuffledeck of other people's opinions.

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 11245764)

There really isn't a need for the word "black" in your title. You only need to describe him as "good actor" You wouldn't describe Daniel day Lewis as "Good White actor"

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper (Post 11246058)

The problem, is that they are both constructs coming from the exact same side. "wokeness" started off as a tongue-in-cheek approach to black people knowing their own history. "stay woke." It then became a word used to describe opposition to anything.

You think trans people should be treated with respect? You're woke.
You think masks and vaccines were a good idea? You're woke
You think a policeman kneeling on the neck of a black man and killing him isn't a good thing? Well, you've guessed it - you're woke.

No one calls themselves woke, it is only used by those wishing to diminish or restrict the freedoms of others, to dismiss opposition without explanation or justification.

The government doesn't win a court case - that's because of woke lawyers. You get the picture.

To hold up racism and anti-racism (which is also woke these days) as equally bad concepts, doesn't really make a lot of sense. If WW2 were happening today, then churchill would be woke. Don't fall for stupid, meaningless propagandistic labelling.

Originally Posted by Christmas Lights (Post 11246352)

No
woke no longer means wanting equality & respect, now when I think of woke ...I think of self entitled people demanding others to do what they say .

Wokeism is now shoving agenda's down people's throats, and if you dare question or disagree then you're 'cancelled' & a 'bad person ' .

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper (Post 11246469)

Firstly, good to see you back and I hope you're ok. You got a little crazily obsessed and unhinged towards the end there, so I hope the break has done you good. That's not being a smart arse or to try and put you down/sneak diss, it happens to all of us, so I hope you take it in the genuine way in which I meant it, and that you have a good 23.

So, the first thing that sticks out is the acknowledgement of what I'm referring when I describe the propagandistic explanation for woke/wokeism. So then on the other side of that, please point out the journalists, the newspapers, the tv personalities, or anyone other than your circle of friends that knows exactly what you're on about, and use the word in the nuanced way you suggest.

That's without the telepathy required to know whether or not someone understands the cause they claim to be progressing, is yet another hoop that needs to be jumped through to conform to your definition. It's seems to be more of what you think it should be, than a generally accepted view.

The very first line in that post is



The rest of that paragraph is basically you tying yourself in knots, so lets go back. On the previous page, I explained that "stay woke" was initially a black description of being aware of their own history. Do you agree with that? Obviously there are other nuances at play, but as a general descriptor? So then, again, is that the way woke/wokeism is used today? Is it's use in media and on tv, and even on this forum, the pejorative, propagandistic one, or the original one?

The last paragraph is more of a rant that i'm not sure makes a lot of sense to me.

To explain again, my view on wokeism is that it is a primarily right wing culture war. There is no need for the dance and telepathy.

The world is has been screwed by the right wing status quo - capitalist/conservatives. The wealth inequality is growing exponentially, people are dying waiting for ambulances, so there is a definite need to keep left wing idea out of the mainstream because they would appeal.

If you ask a non leftist on the street, about leftist politics, what do you think would be the first one or two things they would say to describe what leftism is?

Do you think woke would come up before holiday pay. maternity/paternity pay, safe working environments, fairer tax system, investing in communities, social programs?

I think we both know that telepathy isn't required to answer that honestly.

I'm not even mad. The right are absolutely killing it at the moment (literally and figuratively) and they've done a great job with this culture war, so that even the leader of the opposition regularly has to attack them from the right.

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock (Post 11246478)

That is also a big issue with the woke community.

They're not a very forgiving bunch.

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock (Post 11246484)

Reading this post really reminds me of how much the Tories have ruined this country.

Edit... When you were talking about certain issues, not a personal attack on you Slim.

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper (Post 11246487)

Yo. Do you have an example of what you're on about? Something that you've done that's stirred up the ire of "leftists", and that you haven't been forgiven for?