Role reversal. Your thoughts?
 

I'm trying to be more clued up on politics and all that goes with it so I've been watching more current affairs shows, mainly on Talk TV.

It seems to me with hindsight that the Tories and Labour's traditional values and beliefs have swapped. A kind of role reversal. Labour are now very cruel and hardliners, or should I say their leader is? Tories, despite their downfall seem to have more heart.

Thoughts. I don't mind if you think I'm wrong?

They haven't swapped, but labour has moved way over to the right.

Nah, I don't agree at all with that, sorry.
Even less so from anything that comes out of TALKTV.
I came to detest just about all that was broadcast on that channel.

I'm very surprised you watch it

Role reversal indeed

Talk TV talk a lot of sense in my humble opinion

One could say that the Tories are (currently) more appealing to the working classes.

Yep

I wouldn't go that far ,but right now .... Labour isn't doing themselves any favours. And as I keep saying, Starmer is actually worse as a PM than Sunak.

Sunak was a decent Chancellor during covid, and when you review his term as PM he gave support to everyone during the first energy crisis, then 900 extra a year to UC claimants ....Labour so far has taken away winter fuel, given the train drivers and doctors a large pay rise, dont seem too keen to give the nurses an inflation busting rise... lets see what the budget brings

Labour and Tories are finished as parties

There is no going back now

I think that they're both very similar tbh.

I'm hoping to be proven wrong on Starmer as it's still early days tbf to him, but I'm not keen on what I have seen of his leadership so far.

Tbf to Sunak, he inherited a shitshow from all of the Tory leaders prior.

I do agree with you that he didn't do too badly in hindsight, especially compared to clowns like Cameron and May.:umm2:

I do think that Sunak was poor at endearing himself to the public though.

parties have to adjust to the times we live in. The rise in populism across the world threatens all the old world norms that go against traditional party lines. Parties no longer represent their old traditional politics they have had to re-align or die. In 5 years, i have no idea what politics will be like, but i do know one, it will be the common folk that suffer as they always have

Agree :clap1:

I don't watch it .

I did when it began but agreed with next to nothing on it or how things were expressed.
Although you mentioned a segment which I did watch a few times to give that a try.

However no, I'd have nothing at all to do with it now.
Awful, in my view.

Labour seem to hate the white working class despite supposedly being the party of the working man. I've never voted Labour but I could respect them. I can't respect them now. They actually disgust me. I think the feathering of their own nests with freebies was the final nail in the coffin for me, especially coming hot on the heels of taking the elderly's winter fuel allowance. The Tories aren't the same party anymore either. At one time I could have believed they'd get a grip on migration but they just didn't. Instead they were letting in almost a million people every year putting a strain on our infrastructure and services and forcing multiculturalism on working class areas. Neither are the party they used to be imo.

Brilliant post Liv.

Absolutely not, one unpopular policy doesn’t suddenly make the Tories caring or a party of decent people, because they’re not

Absolutely yes!

Expand on your reasons?

They are far more decent than Starmer and his cronies. See Livia's post. She said it all perfectly.

It's always easier to be compassionate when you're in opposition. Governing weighs heavily on anyone

I think we partly just got used to the Tories being the nasty party and Labour the nice ones because we had the Conservatives in power for so long. Ultimately all governments only have a limited ability to really improve everyone's lives so their popularity will always be limited. If you're lucky as a government you get a few years of relative prosperity but we haven't had that in a long time

:joker:

They just ain't.:nono:

Now that's all very fair points, in my view.
I can agree with all that.

Ah I see now, you think they hate white people, it makes more sense now seeing as you’re going down the racism/reform route, even more reason to call your post nonsense then

:conf: no. I think they hate working class people. I'm a bit pissed off with you repeatedly labelling me a racist on here.

The white working class, my post says, not white people per se.

I would say that Tories lost the plot, all the infighting and not supporting each other as a party.
Labour on the other hand should be downright ashamed of themselves.
Heaven only knows what’s coming in the budget.

Seems to me Starmer's Labour Party hasn't swapped policies with the Tories.

He's now adopted Stalin's politics.

That's why he's Stalin Starmer.

I have to disagree on parts of what you're saying Livia.

There's people from all backgrounds & cultures who have either been living here most their life or years & years....who have worked their fingers to the bone .Or who were born & bred here who have put so much into society & their community ,never been lazy who are affected massively in a bad way by what labour are doing aka Starmer precisely.


And I should know as I'm not white and it's affecting my family,but I was born here in the UK ,full British citizen and it makes no difference to Starmer as he has no compassion for working class people in general . This new excuse my french Sh1tty way to put people off applying for universal credit is disgusting, you basically have to jump through hoops just to get a bit of support. Oh and if you're disabled... apparently you are still fit to go back to work. He's all heart our lovely Starmer .

I get some points you're making,but I disagree on Starmer only hating the ' white working class'. It might seem that way in the narrative...but we're all screwed, unless we're rolling in it with private health care and living in a fancy area where there's low crime rate , unfortunately we don't all have the luxury of that.

All MPs make me sick if I'm honest,I don't think any of them will ever truly know what it's like to struggle. Starmer is alot worse than Sunak ...but Sunak was out of touch anyway.

Oh and the winter fuel wasn't just taken from white working class pensioners. Like I said I'm seeing it affect the people around me. If you're working class or disabled in this country, especially if you've contributed & worked all your life, Starmer doesn't give a damn about you. He's laughing in our faces...as he stomps & spits on the very people who have built this country.

I'm just glad I didn't vote in the farce election ,I don't trust any of them . Politics has gotten far more corrupt
than usual these days.

Goldheart, I don't disagree with a lot of your comments and maybe I expressed myself too briefly for such a big topic. I'm just about to go away for work for about a week, hopefully, but when I come back I will expand on what I said. Thanks for your very reasoned response.

Yeah it's true it is a big topic & can get a bit complex , that's ok ...I'm sure you'll be able to shed more light on it . I think I understand what you're saying ,and I do agree in parts :wavey: .

That would depend on which leader we're talking about here for the Tories.

I agree with everything you are saying Goldie, Labour USED to be the party for the working class, and Starmer did hang on to this by the coattails banging on about his father being a toolmaker and his mother a nurse, clearly he just wanted power and I feel the next 4 years he will bang on about the legacy left by the Tories despite quite rightly saying people wanted to turn the page, etc ...like you I am glad I didnt vote although I spoiled my vote rather than not vote .... I had hoped we really would turn the page but the freebies debacle just shows how greedy he is and that is not a nice trait in anyone

Yes of course. I meant Rishi. He did have a heart imo.

Rishi did seem like an okay person, I'll agree with you on that, even if he had an odd situation about the Working Class.

May also seems like a decent person imo, just incompetent at the job.

Cameron I despise still to this day, some of the things that he did when he was the PM were nothing short of evil imo.

Yep must agree. Cameron was a vile snake.

I still can't get over how he was encouraging disabled people to take on any job possible, even if it physically was too demanding for them.

…I don’t think there’s any reversal, there’s more a merger into one because politics seems to attract ‘career politicians’ rather than vision ones that want to see changes that the people hope for and need…for me, there no longer seems to be a ‘spin’ on politician words, it’s more out and out lies and that’s become accepted and in a way, acceptable…we don’t hold our politicians to very high standards, sadly…we use expressions like…’well that’s not as bad as…’…etc…and that type of standard and holding up will only give us the ‘worst’ and not the best…’Labour’ is just the name of a party that isn’t ‘Conservative’…and that’s not what the country deserves or needs, it needs to be voiced and represented…all Kier Starmer has given is a party that has a different name to the one that’s created so much hardship…that’s all we have/same party, different name …it’s very sad that we haven’t even begun a journey yet…

Here they couldn't do that if they were taking Disability because if they pick up a check that goes through the system (paying taxes) or they show during a home visit their capacity to work, they'll lose benefits. Heck, the govt will raid their savings account if they see the money is being put away and accumulated. I've seen the latter happen twice. A viable living standard means paycheck to paycheck according to the govt, and yet companies are willing and able to issue revolving credit (ie cards) to someone living off of SSI (Disability).