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-   -   Cold Case : Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=394768)

Niamh. 03-12-2024 12:54 PM

Cold Case : Who Killed JonBenét Ramsey
 
Most people are probably familiar with this one, anyone watching? I've just put on Ep 1, such an awful case, poor little girl


UserSince2005 03-12-2024 01:10 PM

Pointless documentary, everyone knows she is now Katy Perry.

Niamh. 03-12-2024 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UserSince2005 (Post 11584592)
Pointless documentary, everyone knows she is now Katy Perry.

:laugh: I hadn't heard that one before

Cherie 05-12-2024 10:45 AM

I was aware of the case, but never of the circumstances around it, what the police put that family through was pretty despicable

Ammi 07-12-2024 06:09 AM

…did you finish watching it…?…I guess, although there are obviously many differences…this was kind of a Madeleine McCann case of it’s time in that the main questioning was…was it someone who came into where she was and took her or was it a ‘closer to home’ thing….i think that I recall the brother being implicated at some point but that must have gone cold as it’s still a cold case…but yeah, I know it’s not a direct comparison in some ways but it does have the vein of being the Madeleine McCann case of the time in some regards…

Cherie 07-12-2024 08:53 AM

The DNA under her fingernails did not match the family, nor the guy who said he did it, though they ruled him out but not the family...bizarre

Ammi 07-12-2024 09:39 AM

…tbh, I don’t know very much about the case other than general media stuff…I haven’t watched the series yet but I’ll try to get round to doing that at some point…I was reading an article of ‘8 possible suspects’…but that was a 2016 article and I don’t know what/if new evidence has emerged since then with updated forensics we have now…anyway…this 8 suspects were her mother, her father, her brother, Gary Oliva- ‘the town drifter’, Ollie Gray, a local electrician…John Mark Kerr…I think he confessed…?…, Linda Hoffman-Pugh - the family Housekeeper, Bill McReynolds - the ‘Town Santa’….

…it’s a bizarre case as well because if this was some type of ‘stalker killer’…a psychopath personality etc…did they never kill again…did they only ever kill JonBenet…that feels unlikely…so an ‘accidental’ killing…?…

Cherie 07-12-2024 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pigeon Lady (Post 11586317)
…tbh, I don’t know very much about the case other than general media stuff…I haven’t watched the series yet but I’ll try to get round to doing that at some point…I was reading an article of ‘8 possible suspects’…but that was a 2016 article and I don’t know what/if new evidence has emerged since then with updated forensics we have now…anyway…this 8 suspects were her mother, her father, her brother, Gary Oliva- ‘the town drifter’, Ollie Gray, a local electrician…John Mark Kerr…I think he confessed…?…, Linda Hoffman-Pugh - the family Housekeeper, Bill McReynolds - the ‘Town Santa’….

…it’s a bizarre case as well because if this was some type of ‘stalker killer’…a psychopath personality etc…did they never kill again…did they only ever kill JonBenet…that feels unlikely…so an ‘accidental’ killing…?…

I didn't know much about it either but not to give too much away I think when you watch the documentary you will see how she was murdered could not have been accidental ...also it is unlikely a 10 year old boy her brother could have carried it out ....the also said her mother did it in a fit of rage, but again that doesn't quiet add up...to me anyway

arista 07-12-2024 11:41 AM

[it’s a bizarre case as well because if this was
some type of ‘stalker killer’…a psychopath
personality etc…did they never kill again]


With so many FBI and Cops on the case
how he will not be killing little girls
for a while....................

Ammi 07-12-2024 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie Christmas (Post 11586384)
I didn't know much about it either but not to give too much away I think when you watch the documentary you will see how she was murdered could not have been accidental ...also it is unlikely a 10 year old boy her brother could have carried it out ....the also said her mother did it in a fit of rage, but again that doesn't quiet add up...to me anyway

…yeah, I think the thing with her mother and the ‘fit of rage’ theory is that no one appears to have ever seen her in a fit of rage, so as you say….that seems unlikely…I guess that the ‘most likely’…(…and again, I’m going in blind because I know very little of the story/details etc….)…would be John Mark Karr, the school teacher who confessed to having killed her…plus apparently knew some details about JonBenet’s murder that had not yet been made public…also had, had child pornography charges against him…

Ammi 07-12-2024 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 11586385)
[it’s a bizarre case as well because if this was
some type of ‘stalker killer’…a psychopath
personality etc…did they never kill again]


With so many FBI and Cops on the case
how he will not be killing little girls
for a while....................

…yeah of course, Arista…it was a very public case but so have been many ‘serial killer’ cases that have still gone on to kill more victims…

Vanessa 07-12-2024 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pigeon Lady (Post 11586410)
…yeah, I think the thing with her mother and the ‘fit of rage’ theory is that no one appears to have ever seen her in a fit of rage, so as you say….that seems unlikely…I guess that the ‘most likely’…(…and again, I’m going in blind because I know very little of the story/details etc….)…would be John Mark Karr, the school teacher who confessed to having killed her…plus apparently knew some details about JonBenet’s murder that had yet been made public…also had, had child pornography charges against him…

He seems the most likely suspect to me

Vicky. 07-12-2024 06:26 PM

I don't see how it could be a stranger or random pedo when you take the 'ransom note' into consideration.

I remember reading about this years back and my theory was it was the brother, and the parents helped cover it up so they didn't lose both kids. But watching Burke on doctor Phil made me doubt that a bit. Interesting case tho

Vanessa 07-12-2024 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 11586540)
I don't see how it could be a stranger or random pedo when you take the 'ransom note' into consideration.

I remember reading about this years back and my theory was it was the brother, and the parents helped cover it up so they didn't lose both kids. But watching Burke on doctor Phil made me doubt that a bit. Interesting case tho

The brother is so weird.

Vicky. 07-12-2024 06:39 PM

https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/for...d.php?t=310241

My essay about the brother..so weird looking back on your old threads :laugh:

Cherie 09-12-2024 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve (Post 11584590)
Most people are probably familiar with this one, anyone watching? I've just put on Ep 1, such an awful case, poor little girl


Did you finish this Niamh? any thoughts?

Niamh. 09-12-2024 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie Christmas (Post 11587201)
Did you finish this Niamh? any thoughts?

I have about 20 minutes of the last episode to go, I'll finish it at lunch time and get back to you

Niamh. 09-12-2024 10:59 AM

I had looked into this case before on a Podcast I listen to, I know that people really thought Burke had something to do with it as well, maybe even more so than the parents (or at least that he accidentally killed her and they covered it up) but

Spoiler:

I just couldn't imagine the parents sexually abusing her as a way to cover up for Burke, that's mental to me

Vicky. 09-12-2024 11:18 AM

Spoiler:

I think the sexual abuse was a separate topic, and maybe to do with the party the night before
.

Niamh. 09-12-2024 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 11587216)
Spoiler:

I think the sexual abuse was a separate topic, and maybe to do with the party the night before
.

But

Spoiler:

If it was from the night before how come the same paintbrush that was used to abuse her was also used as the handle on the garrote? seems like all these things happened that night, wasn't there blood found on her underwear which would mean it happened that night?

Vicky. 09-12-2024 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve (Post 11587220)
But

Spoiler:

If it was from the night before how come the same paintbrush that was used to abuse her was also used as the handle on the garrote? seems like all these things happened that night, wasn't there blood found on her underwear which would mean it happened that night?

I didn't know that part, or had forgotten it. Think I need to watch this and rewatch the CBS one too.

Niamh. 09-12-2024 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 11587223)
I didn't know that part, or had forgotten it. Think I need to watch this and rewatch the CBS one too.

Spoiler:

I think The Netflix doc is a bit biased towards the family not being involved because as far as I remember I thought it was more of a possibility before this one (it's easy to forget details though) although the one I listened to before may have been more biased in the opposite direction

Niamh. 09-12-2024 11:34 AM

Found an old thread you started about it actually Vicky

https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/for...ey#post8993523

Vicky. 09-12-2024 11:38 AM

Yea linked that earlier :laugh:

Niamh. 09-12-2024 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 11587228)
Yea linked that earlier :laugh:

Oh sorry totally missed that post duh

Ammi 09-12-2024 12:34 PM

…I’ve got a bit of free time so I think that I’ll start watching this now…

Niamh. 09-12-2024 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie Christmas (Post 11587201)
Did you finish this Niamh? any thoughts?

Ok just finished it

Spoiler:

Definitely don't think that the family were involved, I see at the end they decided that the DNA might have been contaminated. I honestly think it was that guy John Mark Kerr. He seems like the type that would write a letter like the ransom note was too, rambling and stupid

Ammi 09-12-2024 01:57 PM

Spoiler:

…wow at John Ramsey’s older daughter being killed in,a car accident as well…that’s something I hadn’t known, it’s terribly tragic how much loss the family have had in their lives…

Cherie 09-12-2024 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve (Post 11587253)
Ok just finished it

Spoiler:

Definitely don't think that the family were involved, I see at the end they decided that the DNA might have been contaminated. I honestly think it was that guy John Mark Kerr. He seems like the type that would write a letter like the ransom note was too, rambling and stupid

Spoiler:

I agree, the manner in which she was killed would hopefully rule out family members and also why would they not move the body as the house would be the first place to be searched, John Mark Kerr knew aspects of the case that were never made public but it appears the police were so keen on sticking to the theory that it was the family did this that they ignored it, interesting as well that both cases resulted in compensation to the family and to Burke

Niamh. 09-12-2024 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie Christmas (Post 11587260)
Spoiler:

I agree, the manner in which she was killed would hopefully rule out family members and also why would they not move the body as the house would be the first place to be searched, John Mark Kerr knew aspects of the case that were never made public but it appears the police were so keen on sticking to the theory that it was the family did this that they ignored it, interesting as well that both cases resulted in compensation to the family and to Burke

Spoiler:

Exactly, the theory about Burke hitting her and causing the head injury and then her parents doing the rest to cover it up is just such an outlandish and macabre stretch. That they would sexually abuse and torture her to hide the fact her brother hit her is just so grotesque and that people believed it as well with literally no evidence is crazy. I'm not saying it's beyond the realms of possibility to say they might have covered for their son but I mean, say she fell down the stairs or something, there would have been zero need for all the rest. John Marks confession and the details he went into sounds more like the kind of sick mind that would do that to a 6 year old.
I feel so bad Patsy died so young as well with nothing resolved and all that horriblness hanging over their lives

Niamh. 09-12-2024 02:17 PM

I wonder if they ever

Spoiler:

Took a sample of John Mark Kerrs hand writing to compare to the ransom note?

Ammi 09-12-2024 02:53 PM

Spoiler:

…The special report televised ‘Trial of the Ramsey’s’ was outrageous and completely trivialising the brutal murder of a child for what felt like entertainment/sensationalist value…and that they intimated in that, that JonBenet was being exploited and sexualised, while if that was what they felt, they were then all doubling down on that…

Niamh. 09-12-2024 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pigeon Lady (Post 11587266)
Spoiler:

…The special report televised ‘Trial of the Ramsey’s’ was outrageous and completely trivialising the brutal murder of a child for what felt like entertainment/sensationalist value…and that they intimated in that, that JonBenet was being exploited and sexualised, while if that was what they felt, they were then all doubling down on that…

Spoiler:

The 90's and even early 00's were awful for those kind of talk shows. I'm not a fan of those pageant's for children at all I might add but I don't think Patsy did it with bad intent, she was involved in that world herself and probably just saw it as sharing her interest. I do think that unfortunately for JonBenét it may have been what made her noticed by the sick person who did what he did to her though

Niamh. 09-12-2024 03:24 PM

of course now I'm falling back down the rabbit hole of this case once again, I had forgotten about


Spoiler:

the pineapple in JonBenét's stomach that they think she must have eaten around 11pm-12am which the parents say they never gave her however they found a bowl with Pineapple and milk on the counter with only Burkes finger prints, I think this was where the Burke killed her theory stemmed from, that he made himself the snack after his parents went to bed (they got home around 10pm) JonBenét got up and grabbed some from his bowl, he gets annoyed and hits her causing the head injury and then the parents or just Patsy cover it up

Alf 09-12-2024 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve (Post 11584593)
:laugh: I hadn't heard that one before

That's because you don't drive down the correct lane on the conspiracy theory super highway.

You need to change lanes from time to time. I know you've got an interest in a good conspiracy theory.

Niamh. 09-12-2024 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 11587291)
That's because you don't drive down the correct lane on the conspiracy theory super highway.

You need to change lanes from time to time. I know you've got an interest in a good conspiracy theory.

I won't lie Alfred I do love a good conspiracy from time to time :laugh:

Ammi 09-12-2024 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve (Post 11587270)
Spoiler:

The 90's and even early 00's were awful for those kind of talk shows. I'm not a fan of those pageant's for children at all I might add but I don't think Patsy did it with bad intent, she was involved in that world herself and probably just saw it as sharing her interest. I do think that unfortunately for JonBenét it may have been what made her noticed by the sick person who did what he did to her though

Spoiler:

…no, child pageantry is something that I’m uncomfortable with as well…but it was a popular thing in the US at that time../…I’m not sure if that’s still the case in present times..so the leap from child pageantry and any sexualisation involved in that and sexually abusive parents/father was just bizarre…also that lady who was involved in the TV Trial thing…saying that JonBenet was ‘masterbating with the saxophone’…when she was dancing a rhythm and imitating playing a saxophone…it’s just incredible how much the parents were being implicated on really fabricated stuff and judgement of others…I do agree about Patsy, I think her intent was good…JonBenet possibly wanted to be a ‘beauty queen’ like her mom had been when she was younger and after Patsy’s aggressive cancer….?…she obviously didn’t know if she would see her daughter grow up so I think that was a deciding factor, possibly…that she was able to make that ‘beauty queen’ journey now with her daughter…ironically and tragically, she was correct…she never got to see JonBenet grow into adulthood…but not for the reason she would have thought and ironically also…as you say…that decision for JonBenet to take part in pageantry may have been something that led to her brutal death…

Alf 09-12-2024 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristmasNeeve (Post 11587294)
I won't lie Alfred I do love a good conspiracy from time to time :laugh:

You should be ashamed that I've took over you as Tibbs number 1 conspiracy theorist.

And I don't plan on relinquishing my title.

Niamh. 09-12-2024 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pigeon Lady (Post 11587296)
Spoiler:

…no, child pageantry is something that I’m uncomfortable with as well…but it was a popular thing in the US at that time../…I’m not sure if that’s still the case in present times..so the leap from child pageantry and any sexualisation involved in that and sexually abusive parents/father was just bizarre…also that lady who was involved in the TV Trial thing…saying that JonBenet was ‘masterbating with the saxophone’…when she was dancing a rhythm and imitating playing a saxophone…it’s just incredible how much the parents were being implicated on really fabricated stuff and judgement of others…I do agree about Patsy, I think her intent was good…JonBenet possibly wanted to be a ‘beauty queen’ like her mom had been when she was younger and after Patsy’s aggressive cancer….?…she obviously didn’t know if she would see her daughter grow up so I think that was a deciding factor, possibly…that she was able to make that ‘beauty queen’ journey now with her daughter…ironically and tragically, she was correct…she never got to see JonBenet grow into adulthood…but not for the reason she would have thought and ironically also…as you say…that decision for JonBenet to take part in pageantry may have been something that led to her brutal death…

Spoiler:

Oh yeah that bit about the saxophone was absolutely ridiculous, honestly said more to me about that woman's mind than anything else


Quote:

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 11587298)
You should be ashamed that I've took over you as Tibbs number 1 conspiracy theorist.

And I don't plan on relinquishing my tite.

:laugh: That's ok, Alf, I enjoy reading yours

Vicky. 09-12-2024 06:12 PM

Just finished this..idk what to think as it seemed biased which I guess all shows are. Now rewatching the CBS one which may have been biased the opposite way!


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