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Basically, most men and women voted for trump...

This is categorically incorrect, 56% of women voted for Kamala Harris. 54% of men voted Trump. Men were more likely to vote overall than women.

The likelihood of voting Republican for men was in this order:

Divorced men < single men < men in long term relationships

I provided articles with interesting stats to be discussed and that's the point of the thread, not people's random thoughts and opinions.

So men's brains kick back into gear once the shackles have been taken off.:shrug:

And women stick together more.:shrug:

Around 50% of marriages fail. Surely it can't be used to paint everyone with the same brush.

I think politics of grievance appeals to certain individuals. Not just the divorced, who generally feel that, but for folks who are lonely, and who may have just been left behind by an increasingly uncaring and bleak world, without the tools to deal with those emotions and address it. It's why the links between these groups and people like Tate and Peterson are plain for all to see.

Bonding around hating out groups can be traced all the way back to our primate roots, and alliances these days are undeniably, increasingly, based around hating folks, and the belief that others are getting away with things, or have perceived advantages they themselves do not share.

I definitely agree with that as being a big part of the equation - especially the sharks like Tate and Peterson (and the little guppies like Laurence Fox in their wake) who smell the blood in the water.

I go back and forth with having some sympathy, I do think some ultimately quite sad elements of "male loneliness" have been weaponised. Ultimately all the fault of patriarchal capitalism of course at the end of the day; yet people have been convinced of the polar opposite.

Male loneliness is definitely an issue, and unfortunately the demographic that like to use is as some kind of point during Pride Month, for example, or when talking about issues women face, are the same demographic who help uphold it through the persistence of supporting men fitting into a stereotypical box of what a man needs to be. This box doesn't have space for men connecting with their emotions in a healthy way, which would reduce male mental health issues.

The biggest irony is, this same subsection are those most affected by male loneliness. Those whose archaic worldview help keep it in existence. It's an issue, in many ways, of their own creation.

No but while political differences are sometimes the reason FOR divorce, I think the more interesting question is why do some people's politics and personal opinions seem to shift after a bit of (too much?) "time alone" and it seems to affect men more than women.

Is it true that they were maybe hiding certain things they thought wouldn't go down well with partners? Or is it that "loneliness" and maybe more importantly a lack of diverse social outlet has an effect over time. Or a bit of both. Is there ironically an element of feeling marginalised/excluded from a sense of personal or familial community (and drawn into other communities as a result) part of it.

The stats are what they are it's trying to see the reason that's interesting to me. Sometimes. When feeling open minded.

The people pushing it and benefiting from it are not the ones most affected by it though, I suspect. Well, mostly. I do think Jordan Peterson is a very angry, confused and lonely man. His descent from academic to religiosity and frustrated righteousness is a case study in itself... Yet he's made a fortune off it himself. Bizarre stuff. He's gained fame and fortune but oh boy he does not seem like it's made him happier.

You make it sound like men are sad and lonely after a divorce...

Sorry but it isn't always like that.

Obviously not always, but often. That's what statistics are about Parmy, it's not about everything being 100%, it's about noticing correlations that "X increases alongside Y" and thinking about why that might be.

If anything, the fact that it's "not all" makes it even more interesting because it means that it's not inevitable - so if you can figure out why it affects some men so badly but others manage to navigate it without going down that route, you can maybe tackle the issue.

Because as has been said above there are all sorts of reasons for divorces and separation, the answer can't be "we can solve it by people never breaking up". So it's worth figuring out why such a large number head off down a dark path.

If the wife was a democrat voter and it was her that filed for divorce, then the div9rced husband is obviously going to vote for trump to get one up on her.

If it was the man doing the divorcing, he probably found out she voted democrat.

It depends a lot on education and what peoples home life was like growing up too. Also, we had a once in a generation covid event that will likely be a major contributor to peoples mental health/thinking for many years to come

To be fair on the Covid thing also - it was practically once in a century or more, no one in living memory has seen anything like it (not Covid as an illness per se, but the lockdown/self quarantine/furlough situation) and we'll most likely never see anything quite like it again. Fascinating historical event but yes it definitely created some unusual mindsets.

Would you want to marry a modern leftie woman?

She's probably humourless, ugly, angry, witless and has Green hair. And would likely want your son to identify as a girl.

Not all lefty women are ugly and have green hair.:laugh:

Why would ANY woman choose a republican man whose political beliefs show he doesn’t value her health or safety or independence.

Just a reminder it’s a MALE loneliness epidemic. Women are choosing more and more to stay single instead of getting in relationships with republican men who will end up treating them like an unpaid maid / their mummy, and won’t even know their children’s teachers name.

Men are told their purpose in life is to “leave a legacy” and make money, so when women are choosing to be single and the world is economically ****, a lot of men are ‘failing’ at the one thing they are told they should be achieving.

Men need women more than women need men. A lot of my guy friends - most of them will be centre right politically - got married and had kids because that’s what society told them was the purpose of life. Thats what men are supposed to do. They’re not particularly happy. Unfortunately, many men are so concerned with being seen as ‘successful’ by society they will make decisions that will ensure they are the paradigm of that, all the while being unhappy.

Women are smarter than men, and are more and more frequently making decisions that are beneficial for a happy and content life rather than what society is telling them they should be doing.

Unfortunately for many men, that life more and more often doesn’t include them if their values include banning abortion and that women should take on the mental load of an entire family while he plays golf.

I will say however I think this is shifting. I think younger men not influenced by Andrew Tate et al are really bucking the trend that have been set by older generations which is great to see.

Most republican men I know are married, but that could just be because I’m getting older and older

Maybe not, but the people they're talking to are. Studies suggest ,ale loneliness is most prevalent in populist radical right support: https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...7795362500005X

I think most republican men are women are probably married to one another, and because of the values that republicans like to hang their hat off (family values, traditional marriage, marriage and procreation being the biggest purpose of life) it doesn't surprise me.

In terms of marital status, aside from Widowed Men, married men and women are the only subsection where the majority identify as republican, rather than democrat:

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics...rental-status/

I think the issue is with younger demographic, with more and more women leaning towards democrats, the dating pool of republican women is smaller, leaving swathes of republican men single.

It's a very American thing though isn't it? Republican/democrat?

Not sure most people here in Ireland anyway even identify themselves politically like that.

…maybe divorced men do pull more to Republic after divorce if being in that marriage provided a more balanced perspective…I think that would be true for some but I recall reading pre Trump’s first election that generally, wives would vote with their husbands so without that then …(…it would say to me…)…that divorced women would pull more the Democrat without that influence …I mean, divorce in itself creates a natural division so that division and gap would/could extend to so many areas and politics is such a game of divisiveness in modern times, anyway…there is very little middle ground other than very right or very left and that seems to be micro analysed in every/any thought …social media/internet/mainstream media etc have all created a tribalistic type team this or team that and there is little in between other than silent voices…

…anyways, another article of interest… @Quantum Boy ….
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/31/o...ump-vance.html

…It’s interesting how Vance, a married family man seems to have encouraged any voting divide in the labelling of ‘cat lady’ voters…

You are right. It is, yes.

I honestly don't really think here in the UK people are so politically divided to such a mainstream extent. There are extremes of both sides, but the large majority seem to fit somewhere in the middle and get along regardless.

I think the U.S it's just far more polarising.

There is literally a group of men (mostly American) who think women find them unattractive because of the girth of their wrist, not joking and I bet you any money that they are all on the right politically.

…(…I think…)…that in the Uk and Ireland also, partnerships vote more independently throughout that partnership so when a separation/division happens…there is probably no significant change…whereas in some parts of America, maybe a different dynamic that impacts voting patterns…

Good on the Irish I think.

Yeah Absolutely. It's definitely less of a .......way of life? I've said it before but really our 2 main Political parties in Ireland may as well be the same tbh I think for the most part people (and this is probably true of the UK as well) just want to get on with their own lives and worry about their own day to day things

…yeah it is true of the UK also, same party different name is becoming more what we’re living…it feels like a political game of career/income elevation….I personally can’t recall ever asking my OH how he was voting in any election, or he asking me…?…but US is such a huge beast in comparison, I imagine that many different dynamics can be part of it…

We talk about it, sometimes we vote the same, sometimes we don't, it's never an issue though.

…I guess what I mean as well is that a divorced woman, for instance…?…if previously voted for Republic because that was very much influenced and led by a spouse…post divorce, could then apply a Democrat vote which may be more in line with a woman’s rights to her body etc and a mindset that aligns more with who she is…?..but that wouldn’t necessarily follow either because some political views in some states can be passed down through generations as well and very deeply instilled…US politics and politics that we know is so different in so many ways…

Yeah maybe so, it does seem incredibly polarised and tribal over there

There's far too much to reply to in that. Pretty much everything you say there is just so unbelievably wrong.

Where do you get this rubbish from?

Let's break it down.

Why would ANY woman choose a republican man whose political beliefs show he doesn’t value her health or safety or independence.

When a vote for Republican is a vote for making abortion illegal, it's a vote against women's safety, their rights and their health.

Just a reminder it’s a MALE loneliness epidemic. Women are choosing more and more to stay single instead of getting in relationships with republican men who will end up treating them like an unpaid maid / their mummy, and won’t even know their children’s teachers name.

Stats are time and time again showing that women are staying single for longer. By 2030 it's estimated that 45% of women between 25-44 will be single. That's a stat continuing to increase. In the 2010s it was 43% and in the 70s it was 18%. For most, this is a choice. For the most part, it's Women who have the control over whether to ignite a relationship, by and large. For many women, if they are single it's because they are choosing to be so.

Men are told their purpose in life is to “leave a legacy” and make money, so when women are choosing to be single and the world is economically ****, a lot of men are ‘failing’ at the one thing they are told they should be achieving.

Studies have often suggested that more men (57%) than women (45%) want children. 21% of women now say they don't ever want child compared to 15% of men. This is because many men - particularly those with traditional values - believe marriage and procreating is the main purpose of life. I am not saying this is a bad thing, just that more men than women value the idea of it.

Men need women more than women need men. A lot of my guy friends - most of them will be centre right politically - got married and had kids because that’s what society told them was the purpose of life. Thats what men are supposed to do. They’re not particularly happy. Unfortunately, many men are so concerned with being seen as ‘successful’ by society they will make decisions that will ensure they are the paradigm of that, all the while being unhappy.

See above. More women don't want kids, more women are choosing to be single. Women are therefore putting less emphasis/important on companionship in the modern day. There is a reason for this. And it's because women are often dissatisfied with what many men bring to a relationship in terms of balance of responsibility. In the 70s, they had little choice and little freedom. Nowadays, that is not a problem. Hence why they're opting out for longer.

I don't know how many women you have in your friendship circle, but I have a lot and more and more are unsatisfied with the imbalance of their home life - something that becomes more and more prevalent when they have children. Most women will work, because not many households can afford to live off one wage - yet many also are expected to take on the majority of the tasks around the house as well - it's a common problem and it's not made up.

I don't think it is just women opting out, I know alot of young men through my sons who have very little interest in having children, they don't want to bring kids into todays world, this is very much social media driven, I don't think we put too much thought into it tbh, it was just the think to do, the other thing they are shunning is working ....lots of young people just not working or in education, they just have a different slant on things, not necessarily a bad thing in some ways

Great in theory but if an entire generation stops working there's going to be big problems in society :laugh:

there is a big shift away from doing things at the request of the countries governments. So, people in general, question whether whats happening will better them just because the government says it will. Social media has certainly helped the process, but governments handling of covid really brought everything home to people in stark reality. No government is trusted now, wherever you go in the world and that certainly wasn't true when i was a lad

What a thread full of wild generalisations and shaky stats.

It’s honestly the same for my generation over here. What you see on the internet is absolutely nothing like real life

Most people my age are completely in the middle ground with politics.

If there were a party that had mostly politically in the middle beliefs, it would 10000% be the majority vote

But our system here is very flawed and I hate that

That's interesting to hear, it's good though, what we see here online and in the media makes it seem so bad over there