Is Britain nothing more than the 51st State?
 

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Perhaps we should be known as 'Britain' instead of 'Great Britain' If we become a 51st state instead of being on our own then we are hardly 'Great Britain' anymore :bored:

what happened to the "British Culture" your foriegners are spoiling, lol, you brits love us too much

hope not!!!!!

Why would we want to join a country with a failing economy? Whoop Yeah.

Nah. I think america is quite a lot different to the uk. People like to call us americas lapdog because blair was in bed with bush for a while.

I'd like us to move away from that whole thing now.

you know you still love to live in america tho, california, new york, no?

I've never been to the US. All I know is what I see on tv. There are parts of the culture I like the look of and parts I don't, as with all countries.

I prefer the more laid back attitude of countries like The netherlands, belgium etc... I would like the uk to become more like these countries.

have you been the netherlands and belgium, ... i have, id rather live in the laid back attitude of miami in the sun

I have to agree, I'd love to live in NY or LA although if I did I would miss Coronation Street:bigsmile:

have you been the netherlands and belgium, ... i have, id rather live in the laid back attitude of miami in the sun [/quote]

To be fair, no! But I think I'm going to go.
Like I said, never seen america either so just speculating.

If I had to say what I'd rather the uk be like I would still say the netherlands though. I think america sets a lot of bad examples.

Also I know people who have been to Miami and weren't impressed. They said it was all just a bit samey and faceless. I don't think you have as much culture and history over there.

I am also scared by your ludicrously large homocide rates, gun laws, obesity, prisons, human rights records and policy on Iraq.

Of course, the uk is guilty of many such offences also, that’s why I’d like us to be more like countries such as the Netherlands.

...On the prisons thing, I saw a documentary exploring some of america's prisons and it scared the sh*t out of me! It was all gang wars between mexicans, blacks, whites etc... Just p*ssing at the wrong toilet could get you stabbed.

omg, i saw a documentary about prisons in finland as well, 40% of them commited suicide in one year! 80% of them have been homosexually abused and its a rising statistic.

then again northern europe does have the highest rate of suicides amongst there civilians, of all the developed world.




nah, i dont think so, I think Depression in the netherlands is higher than in the USA, ... they have a higher rate of drug and prostituin problem,

Do you think The Netherlands is better than the UK?

Actually the US has far bigger drug and prostitution problems than the netherlands statistically and as for depression- who can know which country is more/ less depressed?

Also- 'nothern europe'? Can you be more specific? Indian and chinese women have the highest suicide rates according to one new study:

http://www.marginalrevolution.com/ma...rlds_high.html


Among males Lithuania has a very high suicide rate. The US isn't exatly low. It is slightly higher than the uk and other european countries:

http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...iciderates/en/

Do you think The Netherlands is better than the UK? [/quote]

Yes.

I think what you didnt catch on is when i said developed world,

indian and chinese woman would have more of a reason to commit suicide than a woman in finland. Due to economic pressures...

then again weigh the size of the netherlands as a country compared to the USA and how much people there are in both countries.

in ratio, the netherlands due to there legalization of Cannabis, has a much higher rate of depression, and there obvious sex trade is far more 'liberising' than in the US.

so yeah, ill pull some webpages to prove it later... , but its a well known fact that northern europe has a higher suicide rate than any where else in the Developed world...

... due to the darkness, the cold e.t.c

But that isn't true. Lithuania isn't particularly developed either. The uk has a lower suicide rate than the US (check the link I posted). In fact, most areas of nothern europe, the differance in suicide rates when compared to the US is too marginal to be significant.

Also, on the 'higher rate of depression' I'd really need to see some evidence. I'd also like to know how any statistics can ever measure depression. For a start, they only ask small sample groups- not the whole population and people don't always tell the truth on surveys and there can be many things which bias the results. It's easy to misinterpret them.

Also, I believe that the netherlands liberal attitudes to drugs and prostitution actually help to reduce the problems they cause and make them easier to control and manage unlike the US.

Finally... suicide rates aren't everything. The US has the worlds highest homocide rate of any developed country. Several orders higher than most other countries in fact, even including other countries where guns are legal such as canada. Doesn't make me feel that great about living in the US...

sorry for the late reply

to be fair, again, the population size of america is probably bigger than most blocs of europe,...

... Lithuania isnt exactly situated in an economical bloc as bad as the bloc of south east asia and south asia.

Prositiuation in the netherlands is much greater than in the UK, even when out of the ratio's each countries population size, (Note: the netherlands now actually floats on sea, thats how small the netherlands is)


the link even states that genetics of northern euopre causes more suicides than the genetics of southern europe.

- http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/179/3/194

- http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00004/art00002

if you want more evidence, ill keep them coming, boy lmao

from aneki.com......check the "more lists" to find this info....

Highest Suicide Rates in the World
Rank Country Suicides per 100,000 inhabitants per year
1 Lithuania 42.0
2 Russia 37.4
3 Belarus 35.0
4 Latvia 34.3
5 Estonia 33.2
6 Hungaryk 32.1
7 Slovenia 30.9
8 Ukraine 29.4
9 Kazakhstan 28.7
10 Finland 24.3

now you dont need evidance to compare those countries economic situations with the countries of south east asia and southern asia, do you?

You may want to check this table of drug abuse statistics worldwide. It indicates drug abuse in North America (as percentage of the population) for opiates is twice as high as the netherlands.

In the US, substance abuse as a percentage of the population is 0.6%. In the Netherlands, it is 0.3%. The united kingdom is 0.9%. Hence, The Netherlands has the lowest of the three.

For cocaine, the US abuse statistic, is 2nd only to spain at 2.8%. The uk is 2.4% and the Netherlands is 1.1% (again, much lower).

The US is also consistently higher for other serious drugs than the Netherlands and more often than not, higher than the UK also:

http://www.unodc.org/pdf/research/wd...prevalence.pdf

And also, this discussion is about the uk being the 51st state or wanting to be more like the US, so I made a point that I would rather the uk be like the netherlands than the US.

So I'm not sure what giving me the suicide rates for eastern block countries has to do with anything? Yes, they are higher. I already told you Lithuania was highest in an earlier post.

The reason I would rather the uk be more like the netherlands than the US is evidenced above. I would not like the uk to be like an eastern block country or the US...

funny how you acknowlegde that now...

you asked for evidance about the suicide rate, i gave it to you...

urm i dont know if it occured to you what would happen if the netherlands were as big as the US & UK (in land & population & economy), what would happen with there current policies if they were.

so if what do you think, would happen to the UK with the size in population and land difference if the UK adopted the same Canabis policies and prostitution trade policy

another thing is...


which country has a higher economy out of The Netherlands and the UK?



and The Netherlands vs the USA?




im just tryna work out what your view point on this was fabritaced out of...

the netherlands out of the UK & USA has less foreigners..?



the irony of it all is 'frustration with life', is what this topic go to, right matt?

uuhhm, ?

I gave you that evidence already remember? I'm not denying there are countries with a higher suicide rate than the US. I told you Lithuania was highest remember?

So I fail to see your point? I don't want the Uk to be like an eastern block country anyway.

I was talking about the Netherlands, it was you who brought up northern europe. You said drug abuse was worse in the Netherlands, which is not true. It is worse in the US than the Netherlands.

Also, the uk is not that much bigger than the netherlands. I think their policies could benefit the uk but neither of us know, unless these policies were actually adopted.

I think the policies of holland would work better here than US policies would, hence why I don't think we are similar enough to be called the 51st state. I think we have more in common with neighbouring european countries and I'm glad.

On prostitution... it is easier to measure prostitution in the netherlands as many register. It is harder to track the extent of the problems of prostitution in both the uk and US. Also, more prostitutes doesn't necessarily mean more problems anyway. Prostitution levels and abuse of prostitutes are two different matters.

you said you want the UK to be like the netherlands...

i said other european countries , becuase you mentioned "Belgium " AND "etc"...

you ASKED for evidence to prove that the european countries are higher in the suicide rate, I gave it to you.

right now without having the Nertherlands Drug & Prostituion policies the UK & the USA are Higher than them in the world economy.


so then i gave you the highest rate of suicide... as you said no one can know the stats of depression...


so i gave you the list of all the countries in the world, not even just the countries in europe




everyones entitled to an opinion matt, but an opinion can be fabricated from frustrated agendas.

But the uk and netherlands aren't... Suicide rates actually don't shed much light on depression as only a very small number of people actually commit suicide as opposed to those who may be depressed + I’d already given you a perfectly reputable source for suicide rates anyway, which showed how high it was in eastern block countries so I didn’t see the point in you giving me this information again?! Especially when I was comparing the US, uk and Netherlands originally.

Also, economy isn't everything to me. I already gave you my reasons for preferring countries like the Netherlands to the US i.e. I agree with many of their liberal policies, they have significantly lower drug abuse, per % of the population, much lower homicide rates and I identify more with the culture. This is my opinion, like it or leave it.

And isn't your economy failing anyway?

first of, you werent comparing them originally, you said "belgium and etc" i was the one who picked up on the netherlands.

If depression isnt a significant cause of Suicide, then I dont know how your mind works lol? or do you want evidence of statistics showing what is the highst cause of suicide amonst europeans countries (as the economoy in europe is far different from other in the world) (note: how i take other things in consideration when making opinions (trying my best not to be ignorent))

and i dont think theres any point repeating the facts of the size and population between the two countries, as you wont pick up on it

uhhm, failing and its still higher than the UK & Holland...?

You want cannabis on the streets of the UK?

You fail to understand my point. Suicide rates do not prove that the average person in a particular country is more depressed than the average person in a country with lower suicide rates or that more people are depressed. Only a very small proportion of depressed people actually go on to commit suicide. Understand now? Your point is especially irrelevant considering I never said I wanted the uk to be like any of the countries you mentioned in europe with higher suicide rate.

Also, I did always mean the netherlands and countries like it such as belgium. In case you haven't got that by now, I am still only talking about the netherlands and belgium so don't get too petty over the 'ect'. I simply meant the netherlands and countries similar to it such as belgium.

Also, I have taken many things into consideration and have mentioned them several times when forming my opinion that I would prefer the uk to be like the netherlands than the US. It seems you are finding this difficult to accept. Sorry, but it is my opinion and if you check some of the evidence I have given you on how the netherlands and US vary, you will see my opinion is not ignorant at all.

And cannabis is already on the streets of the uk...

(this is what I said)

"I prefer the more laid back attitude of countries like The netherlands, belgium etc... I would like the uk to become more like these countries."

See, nothing to do with any statistics, this was just my opinion that other countries are more laid back than the US. And after that, I only mentioned the netherlands! So I think you are trying to misquote me by lumping this in with the later discussion we had on suicides etc.. in which you brought nothern europe into it even though I never said I wanted the uk to be more like an eastern block country!

its my opinion as well that the Netherlands is a small country in Population, Land and Economy and cannot prove to be an example of the Drug & Prositituin problem.

If cannabis is already on the streets of the UK, would you think legalizing it fully will increase job prospects in the UK?

if so how comes Job Prospects is higher in the UK than in Netherlands

:)

I would like the uk to be more like the Netherlands. I’ve told you why and also given my opinions, as well as evidence showing that the US has higher drug abuse statistics (% OF THE POPULATION). The US also has a much higher homicide rate (% OF THE POPULATION). I don't like your lax gun laws either and many other aspects of your culture.

So just to be clear, I would prefer the uk be more like the netherlands than the US. I think it is a pretty well formed opinion. If you find it difficult to accept, this is your problem not mine.

And why the heck are you linking legalisation of cannabis to job prospects?!

all your saying is I want the uk to be like the netherlands, whats that supposed to mean? what just the drugs and the sex trade policies, or anything else...

your NOT linking cannabis with job prospects? :puzzled:

the netherlands with freeier access to all the things you say you want, has a lesser economy, which means as you said the economy doesnt matter as much to you... they have less technological advancement for medical and science than the UK and the USA. And now your telling me that Cannabis doesnt have a link to job prospects?

everyones entitled to an opinion, and everyones entitled to debating

Oh dear... You can't just say something is lower and then blame it on something you think could be the cause. Cannabis is more widely used/ abused in the uk and US than the netherlands anyway! and these are as a % of the population so america/ uk having a larger population is factored in. So that argument falls flat!

http://www.unodc.org/pdf/research/wd...prevalence.pdf

Also, the Netherlands and Belgium are very advanced medically. a lot of people in the uk actually go to belgium for certain operations.

everyones entitled to an opinion, and everyones entitled to debating [/quote]

Gee, thanks. Here's me thinking you were getting annoyed just because I didn't want the uk to be like the US. Nice to know I'm allowed my opinion.

uhm the UK and the USA are higher in technology and economy.even it was per % having a small population lessens the spread of drugs. When a country is Superior in Economics, Drugs USE can CATALYSE more than in a lower country, SO if the UK & USA legalise it, AS the two countries are more superiour, legalization will cause more Devastation becuase theres more potential for devastation in higher countries.What else do you like about the netherlands apart from the Canabbis and Sex Trade?

Drugs are a choice I can choose to take or not take and I choose to not take them. I've already proved abuse is lower in the netherlands than US and you are trying to talk around it. Perhaps legalising in the US would lead to more problems- likewise, even though the uk is much smaller, it could cause more problems. It could also have more benefits and even improve things- neither of us know as this policy has not been adopted here.

I do know we are trying to get more like the netherlands in this way though as cannabis laws were relaxed a few years ago. A small amount on your person is usually just confiscated and the person carrying now only recieves a warning. This has improved things. It also helps to free up our overpopulated prison situation.

Still, I don't see cannabis as a serious problem and wonder why you choose to dwell on this and not other more serious drugs (that may I add are also more widely abused in the states than the netherlands).

Lets not talk about availability either. Drugs are probably more available in the Netherlands than any other place in the world.

The US and uk are not higher in technology than the netherlands. I used to work for the nhs and a lot of our equipment was even manufactured in the netherlands and also quite often germany. My parents also work for the nhs and I know a lot of the best scanning electron microscopes are manufactured in holland.

just coz you worked for the nhs, doesnt mean that the netherlands are more superior in technology, if they were again, there economy would be higher than ours. Its even obsurd to think that the Netherlands have higher technology than in the USA, ...

why do you think that is? is it becuase of what i said about a higher economy having more of a downfall if canabis was legalised?

Cannabis causes depression, there are more people in the USA and the UK than in the netherlands, more people would feel the affects of cannabis and the depression and suidicdes it causes. Yet as I have already proved that the UK and the USA have a lower suicide rate, per %.

and what I further say and keep repeating is if you believe the netherlands is an example WHY IS IT THERE ECONOMY IS LESSER, hence there drug use policies?

if you dont believe that cannabis doesnt causes depression and it cannot lead to suicide then your just trying to talk your way out of this

Err... The netherlands suicide rate is lower than the US!!:

http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...iciderates/en/

Also, me working for the nhs proves more than anything you have said. Most of what you say is pure speculation.

We have adopted laws similar to that of the netherlands and seen benefits.

Your policies don't work as well over here.

Also, I would feel safer in the uk/ netherlands as our homicide rate is MUCH lower (%). Also, of the three which country do you think has the most problems with organised crime, gang culture, gun crime etc... Shouldn't be too hard to figure out!

And yes cannabis can cause depression. It's more widely used in the US per person than the netherlands and the US suicide rate is higher. Maybe there is a link there, maybe it is another factor...