If Hitler won...
 

A way old post in TV chat that Sticks made, and it made me think, what woukd of happend if Hitler did win?

We'd be speaking german

I dont want to think about it.

He didn't win, so yeah.. :whistle:

I would hate to think.
I wonder if we would still be the same now, as really the whole world would differ.

I think the conflict would continue till about 1980, Britain and USA would end up allying with Germany against Russia in the Cold War. We might be all living in a nuclear winter now. Who knows?? That's a very simplistic view though, actually. I wonder how long Hitler would have been able to keep control of Europe, the world even... we saw how hard he found it conquering Britain and Russia, even if he had caught them, I doubt he would have maintained them for long.

I think fascist red necks would reign in Britain. The papers would be full of racist hate. Your democratic rights and personal freedoms would be so cut to pieces under the guise of what's "good for the country" and for "security". Finally the UK would turn into a paranoid Big Brother state where there are cameras on every street corner keeping all you lemmings in check.
So basically it would be just like it is now except the trains would run on time. :joker:

I not so sure what would have happened. At the time of the Battle of Britain the British Army was a mess, even without air superiority he could have walked into Britain taken over the southern airfields with the army and taken control of the air. And in any case at the point the Germans gave up on attacking British Airfields in the Battle Britain they were actually winning and didn't even know it. A few weeks more of bombing our air bases and we were finished. Luck was on our side.....

But assuming we had fallen.... well the German army and it allies wouldn't have had there forces split between two fronts and the attack on Russia would have seen the Russian capital fall in 1942. You have to remember the Russian army was disorganized and out of date and it's air force lacked any modern aircraft types. It was only the slowing down of the German advance by being over stretched that stopped them.

Now say that most europe has fallen by 1944/45, would the Germans have stopped there?

Well it seems not. The German Rocket industry had plans to build the A9 and A10 missiles as a successor to the V2. Both of these missiles were true Inter-Continental Ballistic Missiles capable of reaching America, and work started on these in 1940 even before the USA joined the war in 1941. Other projects that shows the ambition of Germany is the Junkers 390, Messsermischimitte 264B and the Focke-Wulf Ta400, although these designs where started after the USA joined the war, they were all bombers capable of reaching the USA. In fact the a Junkers 390 approached within 12 miles of New York before turning back for home in a test flight in 1944.

The Germans technical advancement in Rocketry was amazing and without the help of the German scientists that created the V2 the USA would never have put man on the moon. Couple with this the British excellence in aircraft engine design, and the coupling together of the knowledge of jet engine design, there has to be a real possibility that the USA could fallen too.

In the end I think it would have come down to who could create the H bomb first, the USA or German Europe, but one things for sure if the German Europe had the Bomb first they would have had the means to deliver it much more effectively than the USA.

It is easy to forget, that by the time that the USA entered the war they were miles behind Europe in military aviation, and aircraft like the famous Mustang were designed to British specifications with a British engine. The USA reused a lot of British technology during the war and developed it further, but if Britain had fallen they wouldn't have had that technology in the first place.

In the end, we might have a nuclear winter, like No.1RachelFan! said, but I'm not sure it would be Europe's problem.

:puzzled:
yeah but the question was "what would have happened if Hitler won the war" .... oops my bad...you actually answered that in the first sentence.

ps "Luck was on our side" ... umm you mean the allies including the US and the USSR were on your side. Russians alone lost 20 million in that war and did the bulk of the hard yards. US troops turned the tide, .... pretty sure British "luck" had nothing to do with it.
"Luck was on our side" is pretty much a slap in the face of all who died winning that war.
... now where's my anorak....

Well the first sentence was "I not so sure what would have happened.", but that doesn't stop me having a guess given given what I know about the history of aviation. Who knows for sure what would have happened?

Wait a sec, I have an answer, if Hittler hadn't have won the war he wouldn't have killed himself. Problem solved, question answered.

Oh well now we know the answer, or another one of the possible answers, lets move on...

Yes, luck had a lot to do with it, back in 1940 both the USA and Russia were neutral, they weren't our allies. We would have fallen during the winter of 1940 if operation Sea loin had be put into place. The USA would have never entered the war, in fact they didn't enter the war until 1941, after sitting on fence for ages. As for the USSR they had a pact with the Germans until 1942, it wasn't until that pact ran out they entered the war when the Germans invaded.

So the fact that in the end the USA and the USSR were our allies during the war doesn't enter into this. That happened in history years after we were defeated.

So luck has a lot to do with it, as the Germans stopped there attacks just before we were defeated in the air, the Germans decided to bomb our cities rather than our neatly defeated airfields, allowing us time to regroup.

Wow, I always enjoy your deep insights.

dude...point 1
you singularly missed the point of the whole post in your rush to impress us with ww2 tactical scenarios you have running through your head. The question is about what would TODAY be like if hitler won ... would we be speaking German, would they have taken over the world, would BB9 have gas chambers... that kind of stuff.

point 2
How does the fact that the US and the USSR didn't enter the war till later prove your point that "luck" had something to do with it. It doesn't ... you had Allies ... Aussies, Canadians Kiwis Indians half of Europe etc etc. My point is that the assertion that "Luck was on our side" belittles the many millions of lives lost halting the spread of fascism. ...luck? dude... whatever

You think us, the nation, the people, the population would have conformed?

You cant kill that which you wish to control

are you the actual chewy from star wars? hehe because your last post sounded like you were testing out your jedi mind ****** skills. Dude ... what do you mean? and are you speaking to me?

I'm Probably dead as i didn't fit his perfect dream as I'm deaf.

tbh I don't think everyone would have gone against him
obviously black people - jews - gays and disabled people would have made a stand.

and even if everyone did go against him

we would have had no chance

no army left for a start

it would be like a peasants revolt

we would have been crushed like worms

thankfully it never ended up like that :spin2:

Interestingly in 1974 they somehow using table top war games they ran the battle plans for operation Sea Lion to see what the result would have been.

It did not give the Germans the total victory they thought they would get.



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As for the atomic bomb, Hitler was suspicious of Physics, as it was considered Jewish, and Germany never went down that route.

As we contemplate these what ifs, please remember the 2 minute silence at 11:00 if possible.

yeah all accept Red Moon who will apparently be thanking Britain's good luck instead of those that sacrificed.

That is a bit unfair, even with the bravery and sacrifice of those in our armed forces, sometimes there was an element of luck, if you think back to Operation Market Garden, somethings went awry and somethings did not happen as expected. There was one bridge that was detonated, but instead of collapsing, it held, and was of great use to the allied forces.

Going back even further, it was said that a change in the weather helped defeat the Spanish Armada.

Lucky breaks do happen, the trick is to exploit them as soon as they happen, which is what our forces did all those years ago.

Im pretty sure all of Britain would have revolted, Hitler was hated, and what happens if all the peasents in the village revolt

thinking about it

i guess your right

if al Queda was to take over our country i guess they woudnt really stand a chance against 60 million people

yeah there's chance and luck to found everywhere... but it wasn't why Britain held it's head above water in the first 2 years of WW2 before the US and the USSR entered. That's all I'm saying... if I risked my life saving someone from a burning house and they thanked their good luck instead of me I'd be well p*ssed. In Australia we call ex serviceman "diggers".. they're venerated where ever they go ... especially today and on Anzac day. Thousands died fighting in Europe. Given the day it is, for red to say Britain nearly collapsed if it wasn't for some good luck ...is tactless in the extreme.

We'd all be living under a facist dictatorship having our heads filled with deluded racist paranoia!

mind you not that the politics of fear has gone away, evidently!

:laugh3:

Just thinking about the lives we would be living had all those men, women and children not fought to keep our futures safe. We would all be living in fear, we would not be allowed independent thought, in fact many of us would not exist because of who we were related to.

I dont think Red was in any way making light of those that gave up their lives.

nah Sunny nor do I ... it's was just a point I thought I could twist his arm with. To see if I could get him to concede the Brits had some help in WW2 pre 1942 which didn't just include "luck". Don't like my chances though.

What the UK would be like now if Hitler had won the war would depend on part where he decided to end his military campaign. The point was making was that Germany was preparing weapons that where capable of attacking the USA, and that technically the USA was behind Europe, just as the Russians where in 1942 when Germany invaded. If Hitler had attacked USA then things would have been different from how they would be if the campaign had ended in Europe.

Returning to the Battle of Britain, if people don't like the term luck, lets call it a poor tactical decision on the part of the German High Command. If Germany had continued to attack British Airfields and hadn't of moved the attack to the Cities then outcome of the so would have been different, and if Hitler had invaded, without air winning the air war, and the Germans only got a bridgehead, it would have allowed them to have fighter bases in the UK which would allowed their fighters to take on the British air force on even terms. Yes we did still allowed have a very large Navy, most of which was ill equipped to deal with air attack, and I can see how it would have delayed any re-equipment of any German forces in the UK in the short term, and the success of operation sea loin would have depended on what point during the Battle of Britain they had decided to invade. But here we are assuming that they got all the timing right.

As one poster correctly pointed out, we did have the empire forces and allies in the southern hemisphere, how much these could have helped us in 1940 is debatable. Yes there were airman from Australia and New Zealand in the RAF, but once again the main Australian army didn't enter the war to 1941, again after we would have fallen in the later half of 1940. I can't see how those forces could have saved us, we would have fallen to quickly.

As for the lives lost in that war, I'm not belittling them at all. In fact my father was the driver of a New Zealand Officer who actually counted the New Zealand troops that died in Europe, he was also one of the first people to bring food supplies to one of the concentration camps. In addition to this my uncle was in the Middle East as part of the 8th Army and my grandfather was in the trenches in the first world war. I don't think I will ever forget what they were fighting for.

So I'm hardly going to forget the people that died and the hardship the war caused to millions.

Talking as we were Hitler had won the war.....

Hitler himself died sometime in the late 1950's of ill health although the exact cause of death was never have been released it was generally thought he had tertiary syphilis, which would explain why he been seen in public many years before years before his death. There are rumors that his whole body and face was disfigured by gummas towards the end and in the that his heart gave out in the end.

Today we don't live in fear although life was like that in the 1960 and 1970's as the legacy of Hitlers rule was held in place by the old order. However the older could hold on forever, and as old leadership died, a new order took over and with it the resistance to the regime subsided. The powers of the Gestapo started to be eroded in the the late 1970's and by the new order and by the mid 1980 they were disbanded and the remaining powers were given civil police. Although TV and Radio are still controlled by the empire, over the years the broadcasters have increasing been given more freedom and the people allowed more free thought and speech.

Back to the real world, where Hitler didn't win the war.....

The thing is every dictatorship comes to an end at some point, normally when the dictator dies. Although the people that helped support dictatorship live on for a while and would try and keep control they also would die off. In the end a new order would come and slowly freedoms would return. You only have to look at Cuba today to see this happening.

I think the British people would have rioted, maybe only in small minorities at first, much like the Scholl siblings, but I think that by "now" we would have been liberated from German control.

I'm not so sure, the british people didn't know then what we know they did today. We didn't know about the concentration camps for example. You also have to remember some of the Nazi polices like eugenics was popular in the UK back at the turn of the century and into the mid 1930's. Some people would have welcomed them with open arms.

Of those that didn't want the Germans here lot of them would be scared to do anything.

Given the SS treatment of dissident people in other nations any riots would short lived and very bloody. I think that there would have been a resistance movement in the UK, like there was in the rest of Europe, but how long it could fight on for would be limited.

I think, like in the Channel Islands, the British people would have on the whole have gone along with the occupation of the country, while at the same time doing their best to make it fail.

England might never have won the world cup :sad:

Yeah, but I mean by the 2000s, we would have become independent, I don't think Hitler had the means to control such a mass expanse of land, because he was taking large areas by force, there would never be a majority support for him. Just look at the East/West Berlin situation, where the people knocked the wall down based on one televised mistake by a politician - people would have gotten less tolerant as the years went by; and that was under the "Allies" control, I'd imagine there'd have been several similar situations if the Germans had taken over all of Europe.

I agree with Red Moon if Hitler had won the war crimes would have been concealed and the population suppressed by force. Deadly force at that.. Hitler would think nothing of killing anyone who rebelled against his regime....A small resistance would remain but would never be able to overcome Hitler type suppression...

In all wars there are elements of luck and bad luck and that is no disrespect to the brave people that did battle...

It's impossible to say what the year 2008 would be like if Hitler had won as all regimes lose there principle leaders eventually and evolve either for the good or even worse...

Would Adolph Hitler have had a child with his girl friend / wife (I forget her name), if so would we have had a dynasty like we have in North Korea

I'm just grateful we had millions of brave men to fight for us like we did. If they hadn't, god knows what this world would look like today.

It's questionable if he could have had children given untreated Syphilis can impair fertility.

I don't know why anyone would want to start a thread about this evil bastard:devil:

Makes a change from the stuff in Chat and Games, and it could have happened?

Don't agree. There are a lot of evil bastards past and present and in the future without doubt.....All valid interesting topics of discussion be it hypothetical debate or otherwise.....