I\'m going to be controversial - long post
 

Ultimately Freddie brought himself down by being too confident. Bea played a major part in his downfall and we've all seen it happening.

Now the controversial bit - I thin Marcus had a hand in Freddie's downfall.

I said a couple of days ago that I didn't believe Marcus wanted to go although he kept saying he did. Freddie should have trusted Siavash more. Marcus sewed a seed of doubt with Freddie and told him Siavash wasn't to be trusted. "Don't trust anyone in here - only me". This was done when Freddie was on a real low and he made the mistake of trusting Marcus totally. Marcus made himself Freddie's best and only friend in a similar way that he controlled Noirin

I also said, and still believe that on the night Marcus had the row with Bea he knew he was going to gain popularity. He told Freddie to go back to bed and not get involved because if Freddie had laid into Bea at that time he would have gained massive support. He trusted Marcus and went back to bed.


He trusted Marcus when he told him that Charlie wouldn't vote for him. Charlie has voted for Freddie every week as far as I can remember.

Marcus hugged Lisa last night. They dislike each other intensely but Lisa preferred Marcus to stay and they used each other.

Well played Marcus. Freddie made the mistake of putting too much trust in Bea and Marcus. He finished himself off by being too cocky.

I think you're right to some extent...

who was the one who defended freddie when bea and charlie were stealing his cider and his tea?? marcus

the dark horse has been great to halfwit and hasn't done anything recently to get freddie voted out or disliked at all, he has been sticking up for him over the past few days

I'm not saying that Marcus got Freddie evicted just that he was knowingly instrumental in his eviction.

On the night of his argument with Bea, when they both knew they were up, yes Marcus did tell them "It's not right to steal" and he smiled. He also smiled or laughed at several negative things that were said about Freddie and I didn't think he said a great deal in his defence.

Of the people in the house I do think that Siavash and Marcus were his best friends but ultimately Marcus was looking after no. 1 and played a better game than Freddie and he did play a part in Freddie being evicted IMO

The reason your point seemed very plausible is because Marcus did nominate Halfwit week 3 and week 6 so it is plausible Marcus is playing the best game in there!!!!!

Thats is Exactly what i thought when he sent freddie back to bed, he did not want to share the glory of taking on Bea with Freddie .i though this Guy dose not really want to go home

Freddie would not agree that marcus got Freddie evicted.

It was time for Freddie to go he was exhausted.
I hope he can deal with the footage he will watch.

He was great on the eviction interview and even better on BBBM.
For terry Christian to say he liked him is amazing as he automatically dislikes people like Freddie.

Marcus now thinks he is amazing because he thinks he has beaten the favourite. Freddie has not been top of the poles for awhile.
However the TV polls sent to me had Freddie to win. He might just have been removed because the rest of the housemates were getting back to the bullying syndrone led by bea od hiding things etc.
It was good for him that e went tonight. I think ke was glad.

You make some good points but I think that Freddie's time was up anyway. There's a limit to what we can support, he would have either took a knife and stab Bea or walk out the house.

Well said and I'ts very interesting what you say I had not thought of it like that before,poor Freddie got stuffed everyway by the looks of it

I'm not bitter because Freddie has gone although I would have preferred him to stay, mainly to rub Bea and Lisa's noses in it.

It really is purely an observation.

I want Rodrigo to win. He's been my favourite from the start

if this is the case then purely on best gameplan alone he should win,,,,,,but ive started to see his morals and i think they are genuine,,,,little things he has said has been the truth,,,i didnt want him to win at the start but his personality has grown on me.
Plus i cant smell him from here so that doesnt bother me lol

Freddies fault :whistle:

Freddie's own arrogance was the downfall off him

Do not put the blame on marcus he has stuck up for freddie numerous times

I'm not being picky, but didn't Marcus say: "I don't trust anyone, only me" ? Or was this another conversation?

But he did say that about Siavash which I don't think was meant to preserve Marcus' time in the house but certainly did not help Freddie and his confusion in the scene which followed.

I'm a total Freddie fan but the ONLY reason I wanted him to stay was because I wanted to see Bea's face when she realized her scheme was failing.

It was time for Freddie to leave as he was no longer playing a good game and seeing a nasty piece of scum like Bea, constantly beatching about him, was becoming monotonous and unwatchable.

Marcus played a small part in the downfall of Freddie and I agree that someone who says they want to leave, never really wants that. Marcus was/is looking for reassurances by the public and appears to know more about the BB game than any of them. He makes sure he is last to bed thus gaining support from those who stay up to see if there's any night action; he also puts on acts to ensure further publicity. I don't think that getting Freddie evicted was a deliberate thought and believe ultimately Freddie only has himself to blame.

I did not want Freddie to go but what lost him his place in the house was Bea, and two disastrous scenes where he appeared too self-assured. Probably more to blame [inadvertantly] than anyone is Tom, who spilled the beans about Freddie's outside popularity. It probably gave him some much needed confidence at that time but he did not use this knowledge wisely imho

i liked freddie,annoying as he could be sometimes.i didnt want him to leave,but,i wanted marcus to stay,as he can outdo bea every step of the way.despite her grandiose self love,he is far more intelligent that her,maybe not in education,but certainly in social aspects.her over inflated opinion of her own worth clouds her perspective of reality.i believe that marcus has integrity,and that he is a loyal and honest friend.

You're right, Marcus is infinitely more intelligent than Bea, the only difference was in their education. Even without the same education Marcus can completely control and out-argue her in any debate. I don't mean argue in the heated row sense but its purest form of debate.

Im not an exclusive member of any Freddie club but what happened to Freddie was a disgrace. Bea single handly cost him any chance of winning. Everyone on earth has flaws and Freddie’s were shown up big time. She kept picking away and picking away and kept going at him and day by day, frustration built up inside him and he snapped. Simple as that. That day of the argument between Freddie V Lisa, Marcus V David is what cost Freddie from winning.

Lisa just dragged him into it, funnily enough it looked like Freddie was having a go at her but it was clear as day she just lured Freddie into it and the moment he said anything argumentive wise, the worst of him came out and there was no real turning back.

They nominated him, put him against Marcus and just rode the luck to see if he would go this time. Bea just kept playing with his emotions and Freddie is a clever lad, he didn’t forget about the original confrontations at the start with Lisa and Kris, Karly etc.

It’s a shame really but what’s done is done. Bea has played a pretty great but vile game so far.

Marcus was his best friend in there when he was getting the worst of it.
He said straight that some things about freddie and siavash bugged him and said it too both of there faces.
But also defended both of them and halfwit killed himself thanks to bea and lisa

I think you are right on all points here. I think that Marcus and Siavash were Freddie's only 2 friends in the house. Going by what I have seen I genuinely believe that Marcus really liked Freddie. Sometimes even when he said "Hello Freddie" he said it in such a way that it sounded like the most positive thing I heard in the house. Really! Marcus is emotional and when he hears something he thinks is wrong he will then say so when that person has gone, but Marcus likes Siavash and especially Freddie, I don't believe he meant to harm his chances.

I really do think Marcus was a friend to Freddie but when push came to shove I believe Marcus, who does understand the game, really didn't want to go . Although he probably actually has had enough, Marcus needs to prove to himself that he can win, although he probably won't even acknowledge to himself that's how he feels.

I think Freddie went tonight because he was too sure of himself but if he'd not listened to Marcus and gone back to bed, he might well have been in the house tonight. I think Marcus knew what he was doing when he told Freddie to go to bed and that is my main point.

I did wonder about that too, and it could have been for several reasons. Either for what he said at face value to stop Freddie picking eviction votes - for his own needs as you suggest - or what I personally think, to get him out of the room before Bea returned from the diary room when it could have got really nasty indeed. Marcus was controlling the "argument" masterfully, and it might have gone really pear-shaped if it turned into the sort of shouting match that it was becoming when Charlie started. We will never know for sure, I guess.

Marcus did spend a lot of the evening defending Freddie to Bea, and I liked this loyalty.

I do agree with you though, I think Marcus is hoping for some kind of acceptance and approval, or at least understanding from this experience. There was a hint of this in that tender moment with Lisa on the highlights when his eyes sparkled when Lisa said something he liked hearing and he felt understood, to a degree.

But he's still The Irrepressible Dark Horse and not a total softy :laugh2:

or marcus could have just been watching his friends back
and you are privilege to information that marcus is not ie
marcus had no idea if it was a victory against bea because he lacks outside info you could just as easily say bea thought it was a victory
and the truth is who the hell could freddie trust?
lisa no
bea no
david no
charlie no
dog face no
siavash (well we all seen how trust worthy he is with noirn lol) so no
rodders no
and who has gone round saying how would you feel if you were up so many weeks and stuff marcus

I take on board the point you're making but I think Marcus did have a pretty good idea that there were points to be scored by having an argument with Bea. Remember, he made the point about the 4 million viewers and the sloppery slope right at the start of the discussion before it ever became an argument (I've said points a lot of times - sorry getting tired:laugh: