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-   -   Should Ched Evans be allowed to sign for a Football Club again? (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266354)

Locke. 16-10-2014 10:14 AM

Should Ched Evans be allowed to sign for a Football Club again?
 
He was convicted on a 5 year sentence in April 2012 and will be released this week.

Quote:

Evans and another footballer, Clayton McDonald, were tried at the Crown Court at Caernarfon after being indicted of the rape of a 19-year-old woman, who was deemed too drunk to consent,[38] at a hotel near Rhyl in May 2011. Evans was convicted on 20 April 2012 and was sentenced to five years imprisonment. He will be eligible for release after serving half of that sentence.[36][39][40] In August 2012, Evans was refused leave to appeal against the conviction, and he appealed to the Court of Appeal of England and Wales,[41] this decision was upheld by the Court of Appeal in London in November.[42] Evans continues to maintain his innocence,[43] and in November 2013 recruited a new legal team to attempt to clear his name.[44] He is currently serving his sentence at HM Prison Wymott.
Quote:

Footballer Ched Evans will leave prison this week, keen to get back to work after serving half of a five-year sentence for raping a 19-year-old woman in a hotel room. As I write, more than 140,000 people have signed a petition stating that Evans should not be allowed to return to professional football. But his former club Sheffield United are reportedly interested in re-signing the striker.

Moral arguments have been presented on both sides. Gordon Taylor, chief executive of the Professional Footballers’ Association, has pointed out that the law does not prevent ex-prisoners from working or resuming their old lives after release: “As a trade union we believe in the rule of law … besides that, [Evans] still wants to contribute to society. If he earns money he’ll pay taxes, those taxes will go to help people who maybe can’t get a job.”

There’s a certain consistency to Taylor’s first line of argument. If we respect the law that has found Evans guilty of rape, then shouldn’t we also respect the legal process that imposes a prison sentence, after which the convicted person is free to return to society?

Taylor’s claim about the social benefits of Evans’ return to work, meanwhile, appeals to two quite different kinds of moral argument: one based on motivation and the other based on consequences. The suggestion that “Evans wants to contribute to society” encourages us to regard him as a person of good will – and philosopher Immanuel Kant makes this concept of a good will or pure moral intention the sole criterion of morality. So Kant would deny that the tax revenue from Evans’ wages has any moral relevance, since only motivations, and not consequences, have moral worth. A strict utilitarian, in contrast, would take into account all social benefits arising from his potential return to Sheffield United.

Those campaigning against Evans emphasise a different set of issues. Katie Russell of Rape Crisis England has stated that her organisation “recognises the right of any convicted criminal to return to work after they’ve completed their sentence”. But for her, the cultural context gives this case a distinctive moral significance. Football is a high-profile, prestigious industry: players are celebrated and revered, not least by boys and young men. And with this public influence comes social responsibility.

If it were to bring Evans back into the team, Russell argues, Sheffield United would be failing “to send a very strong message that rape and sexual violence – and violence against women and girls more broadly – will not be tolerated within football”. According to this logic, the right to return to work can be sacrificed for the sake of a strong statement about cultural values. In other words, in this instance the ends justify the means.

Interest in this case, as with many morally ambiguous situations, arises from a deeper concern about what kind of people we should be, and what kind of society we want to live in. For Plato, this was the substance of all moral questions. One of the important messages in his Republic is the unbreakable connection between the personal and the social, the private and the public, the soul and the state. Cases like that of Evans, then, go to the heart of whether we want to be a society that promotes forgiveness – that allows people to make mistakes and move on – or one that chooses role models who embody gentleness and respect for others.

If it is hard to give a clear answer to this question, that is precisely because both sides are so compelling. Surely we should not give up on either forgiveness or providing positive role models. But the sting in the tail is that, however deep the moral dilemma, a practical decision needs to be made.

I do not know enough about what happened in that hotel room, nor about Evans’ attitude now, to say what should be done. But putting myself in the position of those who have to decide about his career, I see that the way through this problem involves posing the moral questions to Evans himself.

I would ask him if he felt able to exemplify values of dignity and kindness. His commitment to this would make it easier for me to take the stand for forgiveness. After all, we should not have to choose between these two ideals. Both can be realised in this case, but only if those involved take on the responsibility of living up to them.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...-sentence-rape

Tom4784 16-10-2014 10:27 AM

I can see it from both sides of the argument. It sends a bad message to re-sign him but what is the point in the prison system if it prevents someone who has successfully completed a prison term from contributing to society? It's certainly a deterrent to reformation if ex-cons aren't given the chance to prove themselves.

It's a difficult one.

lostalex 16-10-2014 10:33 AM

If he's served his time that's that i suppose. Should he be allowed to have any job anywhere eve again? being a football player is no different to any other job. should he be allowed to work at Tesco?

Niamh. 16-10-2014 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 7325920)
I can see it from both sides of the argument. It sends a bad message to re-sign him but what is the point in the prison system if it prevents someone who has successfully completed a prison term from contributing to society? It's certainly a deterrent to reformation if ex-cons aren't given the chance to prove themselves.

It's a difficult one.

I think the nature of his job probably has a lot to do with it. Because he'd be in the limelight and a celebrity of sorts

Z 16-10-2014 10:53 AM

I think he should be allowed back, he's served his time, no need to punish the man for the rest of his life. His crime had nothing to do with his ability to play football. The thing he was convicted for is such a grey area anyway; it's as easy to imagine he took advantage of a drunk girl as it is to imagine they were both drunk, had sex and then she later claimed rape.

Livia 16-10-2014 10:54 AM

What's the point of making someone serve a sentence as punishment if the punishment is actually going to go on forever. If he is not allowed to return to his job, whatever that job may be, that will surely affect others who have served jail time, paid for their crime and then continued to be punished after they're released.

The exception would obviously be for people who have been convicted of crimes against children, they should obviously not be allowed to work with children ever again.

lostalex 16-10-2014 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 7325934)
What's the point of making someone serve a sentence as punishment if the punishment is actually going to go on forever. If he is not allowed to return to his job, whatever that job may be, that will surely affect others who have served jail time, paid for their crime and then continued to be punished after they're released.

The exception would obviously be for people who have been convicted of crimes against children, they should obviously not be allowed to work with children ever again.

yes i agree. or if a doctor is convicted of malpractice they should not be allowed to practice medicine, etc... or if he had committed a crime on the football pitch while playing football (like mike tyson biting evander hollyfield) then he should be banned from football. but considering his crime had nothing to do with playing football, i don't see the problem.

lostalex 16-10-2014 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z (Post 7325932)
I think he should be allowed back, he's served his time, no need to punish the man for the rest of his life. His crime had nothing to do with his ability to play football. The thing he was convicted for is such a grey area anyway; it's as easy to imagine he took advantage of a drunk girl as it is to imagine they were both drunk, had sex and then she later claimed rape.

no, he is definitely a rapist, pure and simple. considering how difficult it is to convict a man of rape there is no doubt he is guilty,. most rapists get off(no pun intended) so for him to be convicted means there was PLENTY of evidence and he most certainly is a rapist. there is no grey area in this case.

Mitchell 16-10-2014 11:11 AM

Totally, he's served his time.

Plus what message are we sending out saying that people that have served their time shouldn't return to their full time job and bring in taxes?

Rather a rapist earn his own money (and add thousands to the tax system) than claim benefits for the rest of his life.

Amy Jade 16-10-2014 01:20 PM

Nope. His job elevates him to a celebrity of sorts, his face could be in a paper somewhere and his victim sees it by accident. He should be allowed a job back in conjunction with football but not the one he had, keep him in the background.

lostalex 16-10-2014 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StupidHoe (Post 7326054)
Nope. His job elevates him to a celebrity of sorts, his face could be in a paper somewhere and his victim sees it by accident. He should be allowed a job back in conjunction with football but not the one he had, keep him in the background.

Considering what we now know about the celebrities of the 80's and 90's on british TV, if you tried to keep all the sex offenders off you might as well just make TV illegal. Hell maybe we should just throw acid in everyone's eyes, blind the public just to make sure they don't see anything offensive.

Crimson Dynamo 16-10-2014 01:29 PM

The argument against seems to be about him being a role model for kids. Surely kids take no interest in the players criminal past even if they were made aware and could actually comprehend what he did?

Livia 16-10-2014 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7326065)
The argument against seems to be about him being a role model for kids. Surely kids take no interest in the players criminal past even if they were made aware and could actually comprehend what he did?

Because generally, footballers are suitable role models?

Kizzy 16-10-2014 01:57 PM

Sportsmen and women are ambassadors of sorts and they are looked up to, they always have been seen as positive role models. This would send out a very odd message imo.

lostalex 16-10-2014 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 7326101)
Sportsmen and women are ambassadors of sorts and they are looked up to, they always have been seen as positive role models. This would send out a very odd message imo.

so maybe we should stop the media from propping up sports stars as heroes, ever consider that? maybe we should prop up scientists as heroes, is that crazy?

Crimson Dynamo 16-10-2014 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 7326101)
Sportsmen and women are ambassadors of sorts and they are looked up to, they always have been seen as positive role models. This would send out a very odd message imo.

Yes but only to adults, I doubt any 8 year old boy would understand

The role model bit comes on the pitch not off it.

Amy Jade 16-10-2014 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 7326058)
Considering what we now know about the celebrities of the 80's and 90's on british TV, if you tried to keep all the sex offenders off you might as well just make TV illegal. Hell maybe we should just throw acid in everyone's eyes, blind the public just to make sure they don't see anything offensive.

It flies the face of that whole situation and the outrage if a footballer (who gets paid very well) who is a convicted rapist is allowed back to that job and lifestyle.

alex_front2 16-10-2014 02:58 PM

He's served his time, time to move on. The pitch fork feminazis are actually makeing me feel sorry for Ched.

Kizzy 16-10-2014 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 7326153)
so maybe we should stop the media from propping up sports stars as heroes, ever consider that? maybe we should prop up scientists as heroes, is that crazy?

I've considered the thread topic, and commented on that.

AnnieK 16-10-2014 03:04 PM

Mmm its a tough one this. The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act is there to protect people who have committed a crime, served their sentence and want to return a workplace. There are few places where, had he not been famous, he would have had to declare this sentence unless he was applying for a position that is exempt from the Act - the Forces, NHS, Police, working with certain categories of people - children, vulnerable adults etc and so is it fair that once rehabilitated by prison the very nature of who he is not what he did should stop him from returning to his previous career? It wouldn't stop other people and his name will be forever tarnished and maybe if he is allowed to return it will show young offenders that if you do do your time and keep your nose clean, your life doesn't have to stop forever. I know people will jump on me for that because the victims life has been affected forever but he has been punished and undertaken the sentence as declared by the court......

Ramsay 16-10-2014 03:13 PM

No. **** him.

Niamh. 16-10-2014 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramsay (Post 7326189)
No. **** him.

You feminazi :fist:

MTVN 16-10-2014 04:38 PM

Fact is really that for all their public prominence sports stars often aren't great people, and shouldn't be expected to be squeaky clean role models for kids to look up to. Evans would not be alone in continuing his career after a serious crime, at Forest Green one of our star strikers Lee Hughes did three years for death by dangerous driving. Over in the states the NFL has got all sorts of scumbags still playing; you'll find them in most sports if not on the same scale.

The nature of his career means he's sort of in the public eye (though at the very best he'd be returning to a League 1 club) but I don't think that alone is reason to heap extra punishment on him once he's served his sentence. Leave it as a moral decision for any club who might want to sign him but don't physically bar him from football completely.

Mystic Mock 16-10-2014 05:32 PM

Footballers think that they can get away with whatever they want to, they need to use him as an example and ban him as his life should be affected forever after what he did to that girl, and it would teach other Footballers a lesson not to make the same mistake that Ched Evans made.

lostalex 16-10-2014 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mockinator (Post 7326331)
Footballers think that they can get away with whatever they want to, they need to use him as an example and ban him as his life should be affected forever after what he did to that girl, and it would teach other Footballers a lesson not to make the same mistake that Ched Evans made.

yea, that's not how justice works. You can't punish a footballer for what other footballers MIGHT do in the future.

I do agree that footballers should be taken down a few pegs, but that's the job of the league and the media, you can't do it by just punishing this one person. He shouldn't be made a scapegoat for all of the problems in our sport and media culture.


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