Anti-War marches
 

Did anyone else go on the anti-war marches around the country?

I went to the one in London and the atmosphere was amazing. So many people there all for one issue. I saw on the news that they thought that more than 750,000 people were there.

I hope that Tony Blair takes some notice of the country's opinion but being cynical i dont think he will. I just dont think he has any reasoning or backing for going to war.

:mad::mad::mad:

I was working today so I didn't have the chance to go to a march. The whole idea of us going to war with Iraq is totally abhorrant to me.

Since the Gulf War, Iraq has done NOTHING to us, and yet because Dubya says they are the enemy, we tag along like puppies!

The sad truth is that we will go to war with Iraq and thousands if not millions of innocent people will die.

Why, in the 21st Century, can't we all just live our lives and get on with other people?

It's all incredibly sad.

A number of points[list=1]
[*]Saddam Husain has used chemical weapons on his own people
[*]He also invaded Kuwait and needed to be ejected by force because he did not comply with UN resolutions to withdraw.
[*]Over the years since the ceasefire in the Gulf War Saddam Husain has tried to build up his weapons of mass destruction and manipulated the sanctions to oppress the people of Iraq.
[*]Saddam Husain remains a cause of instability in the gulf region
[*]UN Resolution 1441 Requires Saddam Husain to disarm and prove it. There has been a cat and mouse game with UN Weapons inspectors as Saddam's regime have tried to hide WMD.
[*]Weapons inspectors have found spent chemical weapons shells and missiles with a range beyond that permitted by UN resolutions. Saddam Husain is in clear material breach of resolution 1441
[*]If we are not prepared to use force to implement UN resolutions then tyrants around the world will be emboldened to seek to use wmd.
[*]If it is seen that we are in a capacity to use overwhelming force, and are prepared to follow through, these types of regime are more likely to comply with UN Resolutions. In the wild west the Colt 45 was nicknamed the peacemaker
[*]If we appear weak and devided like NATO is at the moment, courtesy of France Belgium and Germany, then we are not taken seriously and war is MORE LIKELY
[*]Anti-war movements play into the hands of these tyrants (For a discussion of a historical parallel this was an excellent Letter from America )
[*]It appears that people are still thinking back to WW2 with regards to mass carpet bombing. This tactic is a waste of resourses and modern munitions are more targeted. The death rate will not be into the millions.
[*]To ignore the threat from a dictator because it appears that they have not attacked us, is short sited and parocial and smacks of the "I'm all right Jack"
[/list=1]

Sorry Sticks I'm afraid I'm with Janette and Sweetlittlesara here. I think you've swallowed the warmongers' rhetoric piecemeal. As many of you know I'm a historian and for me this war is even less acceptable than most. I don't agree with much that Churchill said but :
'Jaw, jaw is better than war, war'

I wish I'd have been with you in London Sara, I was with you in spirit and with my heart. I couldn't have managed the march unfortunately, but I believe that what you did was really important, so well done you. I think the BBC is saying a million people walked. Good for everyone of you. :xyxwave:

For what it's worth I'm with Sticks on this one.

Of course I don't 'want' war, but I think there are times when we have to act and when the alternatives of not acting are far worse. I think this is one of those situations.

::sits back, ducks, and waits to be attacked:: :hugesmile:

No attack Lee, we are in a free country, can speak our minds and I am incredibly thankful for that.

HOWEVER......here are my feelings>

I am diametrically opposed to war, and most especially so on the dubious grounds which are being put forward so forcefully by Dubbya.

I greatly fear we are being led headlong into conflict by a man who has found the one thing which could give him national support and popularity, and a cohesiveness with the people of the nation he 'serves'.

This man would have been barely treading water (politically speaking) without, dreadful as they were, the events of 11.9.01.

He came into office with a monumentally poor grasp of foreign affairs and in early interviews (ie those where carefully worded responses had not been prepared for him by speech-writers) he committed numerous appalling faux pas about other countries. Under the spotlight of the world stage, he was exposed as absolutely clueless about non-domestic matters.

Even when Sept 11th happened, he was conspicuously absent initially whilst Clinton and Rudi Guiliani leant succour to the people.

Then he came blinking out of the safety of his nuclear bunker into a climate of wounded patriotic fervour to find a nation united by anger and despair, and astutely grabbed his opportunity.

He couldn't just 'Go get' Osama Bin Laden. This man was a pimpernel-like figurehead who is/was if anything more powerful in legend than in fact.

Never mind even the fact that in the unlikely event that they did find and destroy this man, this very act would make him immortal and omnipotent.

Such an event would unite so many disparate people across the globe, and Al Queda would benefit even more than it already had from the paranoia and fear exhibited by western 'decadent' powers.

President Bush may as well have sent his knights out to find the Holy Grail.

Having given up on that one for now, his eyes turned back to Iraq.

I can almost hear the train of thought......

'Say, aren't they Muslims as well? Got to be something going on in there. Damned hot bed of anti American activity. My Daddy never did want to let go of that one in 92. Let's get 'em'.'

The whole weapons inspection process is of no interest to GWB. Even if they had a full and frank confession or a believable clear slate, he would be going in.

Of course they have weapons of mass destruction. Most nations in the world do, and anyway, we sold them the parts, we facilitated the technology, took the money, thankyou very much.

And then there is the oil issue.

As we found out in the Ricin incident, not a lot of anything is needed to cause terror and havoc anyway. The world is too open, too accessible to prevent the movement of people intent on doing harm. 50 years ago one shot at Ghandi brought about massive change, and 90 years ago one shot at Arch Duke Ferdinand led to the mindless sacrifice of countless millions.

Today one hand grenade on a plane could do even more damage. But you can't strip search every traveller.

Hatred and distrust motivate and unite. They engender the belief that your cause is just, and further isolate you from your perceived enemies.

These forces are unstoppable. They do not recognise boundaries or high security alerts, they are not deterred by fear.

THEY are what we should be trying to prevent.

To those who ask 'Yes, but look at what appeasement did in 1938!' I say, 'What if Bush were to prove to be the next Hitler instead?'

I know it seems far fetched, but Hitler did bring improvement in the lives of the vast majority of the German people. They saw their fortunes change for the better, and they felt their national pride restored.

That theory would make Mr Blair (whose determined support in the face of overwhelming opposition is starting to worry me a lot) into Mussolini. Which is a shame, because I think he feels passionately that his actions are right. He is evidently greatly troubled and bemused by our nation's opposition to war.

I am sorry I didn't march yesterday. I suppose the excuse that we were at a friend's wedding isn't good enough, given the enormity and gravity of this issue.

I did march in the 80's in something perhaps half as big, with CND. I was younger, and still felt we were able to make our voice heard, and stop nuclear proliferation.

I think it did play a part, but what really broke down the barriers was moving closer in matters of consumerism and trade. Globalism.

We suddenly were able to look at each other and realise that we are largely the same beasts as our old iron curtain enemies. We all want the goodies, and we want them now.

Conversely, we do not appear to have very much in common with extreme Islamic fundamentalists. They are willing to take out what they see as an insurance on the next life, and this life is pretty expendable.

Everything we are doing is pushing us further apart. Nothing is helping us understand each other.

The vast majority of those in the world of Islam and the 'west' are motivated by peace and want to live in harmony.

However this gung ho, 'Bomb the Bastards' behaviour, this paranoia and distrust will only make extremists of more and more people who feel helpless and threatened.

I know I could be completely wrong, but it is how I feel.

In the end, if we are able, we will still have to sit down and, as peachy quoted in the words of that old war-monger Churchill, 'jaw, jaw'.

Now, in the words of Forrest Gump

'that's all I've got to say about that.'

Beautifully said ROB


:thumbs:

Well said ROB!!

Personally I think we need to be 500% sure before going into any War.

My daughter went on the march yesterday; one reason being that her boyfriend's dad is a reservist and is likely to be called to go to War. He's got five kids, the youngest being 6 - his wife is worried sick.

What worries me most is that we seem to be following America's line all the time. Do we not have a mind of our own.

Yes, ROB, beautifully put, as always.

I do not believe that the vast majority of the American people want war any more than the vast majority of the British people.

:bawling:

Brilliant assessment ROB. I'd give you a hug if I was near enough. You said so well everything I feel about this pointless headlong rush towards possible Armegeddon. Would Dubbya be so keen if Iraq wasn't the world's second largest producer of crude and wasn't so strategically placed within the Middle East? I don't think so?

My 19 year old cousin was sent to the gulf on February the 2nd as part of the marines. He wasnt given the proper equiptment needed. This is one of the reasons I am opposed to the war. My mother is also part of the naval reserves and has been trained etc so if we do go to full-scale war she may be called up.

However there are many other reasons why i am angry about this war, i agree with you completely ROB. I feel that we are being led to follow Bush by Blair, whilst most of the country have no support at all. Yes, we all know that Saddam Hussein is an "evil man" but what he is doing IS in his own country, and far too many innocents would be killed.

We have no evidence to prove that he has weapons of mass destruction and so have no reason to go to war. Although i am sure he does, as the americans GAVE him some of the parts.

anyway...

All that is required for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing

Re evidence of WMD

I get the impression that people think wars are still conducted by carpet bombing as in WW2. Munitions technology has moved on.

If we are not prepared to act, then dictators will be given carte blanche to do what they like.

I remember the peacenicks last time, who seemed to think it was OK to let Saddam Husain keep Kuwait.

Should we have let Argentina keep the Falkands in 1982 as well ?

Where do you stop when a tyrant wants to take it all ?

That was a very small majority, and that was because Saddam Husein had attacked another country. At the moment he has done nothing for us to go to war for, and there is a vast majority of Britons who are against it.

At the end of the day though, if they want a war they'll have one. It doesn't seem to matter what people think really. I'm prepared to let them get on with it myself, Sadam is a worthless scumbag and I'm just going to have to trust someone and that someone would the Prime Minister of our country a democracy and America another democracy country's that fought the Nazis, Bush and Blair stand to loose the most out of this if it all goes wrong. Someone I'm afraid has to make a decsion about the world these days, it's a decision I wouldn't like to make and no one here would either, the worlds changed and we have to get used to it weather we like it or not. It hasn't been easy to make this post really but we've all got to be one way or the other, maybe I'm in a minority but there it is. We'll see if it's different this time, most other wars we've won when we face down tyrants this time will be no different lets see how it goes. Iraq will get it's freedom in the end not an oppressive goverment, I know I'd rather have our system for all it's faults, not there's and that's worth dying for, so if Sadam and Bin Laden want to change that it, it will be over my dead body.

Thanks Rob , you have said it all and there are SO many who agree with you.

Bush is a man with a mission and the light of 'madness' in his eye. Blair is too weak to do anything but follow him .He must listen to reason and the sound of the 'silent ' majority who yesterday spoke eloquently by their actions.

Thank you to all who took part in the protest.

Abssolutely agree with you, Sara.

The minute Sadam Hussein does do something, then I'd have far less misgivings about going to war. But as things stand at the moment, I feel there is absolutely no reason for it.

And many other countries around the world feel exactly the same.

George Dubya and 'President Blah' really have to take a step back and take note of what the rest of the world, including the people who elected them to power, really think.