Trump: for the sake of balance...
 

Sign the petition to support Trump's visit.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/178844

Where were the protests and petitions when Robert Mugabe had a state visit? And what about China? They have Human Rights abuses going back into history. There was a small protest but nothing on this scale.

We export more stuff to the US than to any other country. While that doesn't mean we should put up with any crap from the US, it does mean that we should think long and hard before we let a minority of people sour any kind of relationship with the US. Trump will not be president forevever, we should keep ourselves in a position to have a word when we don't agree with something instead of alienating ourselves completely ourselves.

Liv youre a star....just signed it , up to 89, 685 want trump in, if it hits 100,000 it has to be debated in parliament

:clap1::clap1:Been looking for this Livia,Thankyou. Signed.

I'm so torn over this issue because of the reasoning of the original petition;

"Donald Trump should be allowed to enter the UK in his capacity as head of the US Government, but he should not be invited to make an official State Visit because it would cause embarrassment to Her Majesty the Queen."

Because... as much as I think Trump is an utter disaster... I also have a profound and deep-rooted distaste for The Queen / Royalty / Everything the very idea of "elite bloodlines" represents. I hate that **** to the very core. And it has been around much longer than Trump... and will still be around when Trump is long gone... so I just can't bring myself to sign that petition. "Embarrassment to Her Majesty the Queen". Barf. :umm2:.

A petition for something that's already going to happen? Seems pretty pointless, but isn't democracy wonderful

:clap1: :cheer2: :clap2: :thumbs2:

It isn't pointless at all. We don't want anyone getting the impression that there is only one train of thought on this issue, do we.

Nearly 91000 sigs already

They have a long way to go to beet 1,655,501

It is kinda pointless, the complete opposite of this petition exists.. Meaning this side of the argument would have been brought up by default as the opposing side of the initial debate.

Theyre not gonna have the same debate twice.

I suppose its useful to put numbers in perspective? 1.5m against trump doesnt mean much, but there being 15x more people against him than for him means a bit more.

But there's going to be a lot more than that by the month of May.

Well there is that. Parliament debating the "prevent" petition are obviously, by the very nature of debate, going to be debating both sides (and let's face it, are going to come down on the side of a state visit being approporiate). You're right that all it's going to do is put the numbers in perspective and, to be honest, I sort of feel like that's going to amount to this petition essentially shooting itself in the foot (by having a fraction of the numbers that the alternative is attracting).

ahh you can always rely on the rent a mob to come out chanting meaningless populist slogans and threatening democracy...I bet half the faces yesterday were those marching against the junior doctors contract. they dont talk they dont listen and discuss quietly and calmly, they scream shout bully and in some cases threaten and get abusive

1 million want to keep him out, now a petition to allow him entry is up to 90,000...but that means 62 million brits arent that bothered
strange how these 100,000s of protestors dont say much about the hate preachers, the 34000 people killed across the globe by terrorists last year, the despot dictators, the hidden abuses behind closed doors in our hospitals and care homes , why dont they march about the gp contract 2004 which allows all gp's to avoid out of hours work?...25000 people died in one year from undiagnosed blood clots in british hospitals per year.....but marching about that isnt quite as sexy as burning effagies of don trumps wigConfused

Yeh, but even then, numbers are subjective, too many external factors like how many people are aware of the petitions, how many ignored both etc..
This way the petition against Trump can be directly compared to the petition for Trump, and the numbers now have context.
But to me, thats all the 2nd petition is good for.

If this petition supporting Trump's visit had started first, I wonder whether the anti-Trump people would have thought making their views known was a waste of time?

As far as I can see the petition supporting Trump's visit has not been going long but it's climbing up nicely, and the more people see it, the more people will sign it. I think it sends a good message to our biggest export customer, that no everyone in the UK thinks Trump should be singled out from all the other odious, questionable world leaders we entertain.

I don't know really. Two petitions - especially two petitions started at different times - can't really be considered a "poll" or anything even resembling one.

As Withano says - FAR too many variables. Unscientific and therefore meaningless. Then again you could probably say the same about ANY one-sided petition. All of these petition.parliament petitions would be much more meaningful if they had both "agree" and "disagree" options in the first place...

Well, the petition exists and now people who've had to listen to the endless rhetoric and histrionics since Trump was elected, have somewhere they can express their own view. That can only be good. Otherwise, just one side can harp on about how they have 1.5 million signatures and imagine theirs is the only voice. Let's see how this opposing petition goes, THEN we will have context because in the last half an hour it's risen from 89,000 odd signatures to 93,000 odd. It seems there are strong feelings on both sides.

If the for Trump petition ever takes over the amount of sigs on the against Trump petition, we can pretty much confirm that the UK are largely for him considering the time they were made tbf.

But theres a 16:1 ratio at the moment, and I think as of right now, we can only argue Trump is unwanted or the results are unclear.

I think the danger there though is that people would use that to try to argue that people are in general "pro Trump", whereas I think it's fairly likely that plenty of people who are largely anti-Trump (as a leader) would still accept that it's right / reasonable for him to be extended the same welcomes as any other elected president would have been.

Thank you Liv. Great post.

Well, no, because Theresa May has already made clear that the state visit will be going ahead. This petition would make sense if she'd said it wasn't, and consequently the other petition would then be pointless.

Again though, we live in a democracy so it's great to see people engaging their democratic right to sign even things like this. Just a shame the same sentiment can't be and isn't afforded to those who oppose other things, eh.

It's not a competition is it?

Of course it is :laugh:

That is true and i think that category will be much higher than the pro-Trump one.

Not a close one :fan: