ThisisBigBrother.com - UK TV Forums - Is Britain nothing more than the 51st State?

ThisisBigBrother.com - UK TV Forums (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/index.php)

- Serious Debates & News (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=61)

- - Is Britain nothing more than the 51st State? (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52923)

Is Britain nothing more than the 51st State?

Quote:

United Kingdom
The relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom has led some British commentators to suggest that their country has become the de facto 51st state. Some have suggested that the UK should join the U.S. (such as this example), as it would thus become the wealthiest and most populous states in the Union – and therefore the most politically influential, though almost no one in the UK or the U.S. sees this as ever likely to occur. However, if it were to happen, the United Kingdom would have to discontinue its monarchy, or the United States would have to amend its constitution, in which Article IV, Section 4 begins, "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government".

In cultural terms, various American television programs are becoming increasingly popular, as are films, fashion and literature. Economically, supermarkets and fast food retailers are seen as having been imported from the U.S. to the detriment of old small businesses among the elderly, but is seen as a convenience among the general populace. The film The 51st State (renamed Formula 51 for its U.S. release) explores the supposed migration of American criminality to the UK, particularly drug trafficking and gangs. Politically, the decline of the British Empire and the growth of American influence is seen by many as inextricably linked, with the loss of the UK's colonies and naval dominance being the price of American help during World War II; few believed the UK was cozying up to a new imperial power in an attempt to retain some influence in world affairs.

The presence of U.S. Air Force, U.S. Navy and other military & intelligence facilities on British soil from World War II to the present day, especially the large buildup during the Cold War, is taken as clear evidence of American influence. The UK is of great importance to the U.S. Air Force, given its "strategic position" in the world.

Some critics on the political right expressed concern at the possible loss of sovereignty, and the apparent lack of reciprocity in the relationship — while the UK supported America in the Korean War, America did not support the UK during the Suez Crisis. Critics on the left were particularly exercised by Britain following America's lead in dealing with communist countries. The UK's rhetorical support for the U.S. during the Vietnam War led to some protests, although it made no official military commitments. Later, the U.S., this time under Ronald Reagan, secretly assisted the British government of Margaret Thatcher during the Falklands War against Argentina, in the process pushing the limits of the Inter-American Treaty of Reciprocal Assistance. (However, direct actions against Argentina would not have been in violation of the treaty as Argentina was the aggressor in the conflict. Also, the US had commitments of its own to the UK through the North Atlantic Treaty.) The UK continued to be America's strongest ally after the end of the Cold War, reestablished during the Reagan-Thatcher era and once again re-awakened by Tony Blair's strong support of George W. Bush in the 2003 invasion of Iraq, most noticeably through their relaxed friendly manner when in each other's company. The UKUSA Community was formed to counter terrorism and to share intelligence.

There is also limited discussion on the fringes of political debate in the UK of the United Kingdom pulling out of the European Union and joining the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). However, the UK would have to re-negotiate trade links with the EU, which accounts for over 60% of UK trade,[citation needed] compared to NAFTA members (15% of the UK exports and 8.7% of imports come from the largest NAFTA member, the USA). Many British commentators, however, feel that Gordon Brown, the new Prime Minister, wishes to withdraw British support for Iraq and that he would not be influenced by the U.S. as Tony Blair has been.

Wikipedia

Perhaps we should be known as 'Britain' instead of 'Great Britain' If we become a 51st state instead of being on our own then we are hardly 'Great Britain' anymore :bored:

what happened to the "British Culture" your foriegners are spoiling, lol, you brits love us too much

Why would we want to join a country with a failing economy? Whoop Yeah.

Nah. I think america is quite a lot different to the uk. People like to call us americas lapdog because blair was in bed with bush for a while.

I'd like us to move away from that whole thing now.

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt10k
Nah. I think america is quite a lot different to the uk. People like to call us americas lapdog because blair was in bed with bush for a while.

I'd like us to move away from that whole thing now.

you know you still love to live in america tho, california, new york, no?

Quote:

Originally posted by usa4eva

Quote:

you know you still love to live in america tho, california, new york, no?

I've never been to the US. All I know is what I see on tv. There are parts of the culture I like the look of and parts I don't, as with all countries.

I prefer the more laid back attitude of countries like The netherlands, belgium etc... I would like the uk to become more like these countries.

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt10k

Quote:

Originally posted by usa4eva

Quote:

you know you still love to live in america tho, california, new york, no?

have you been the netherlands and belgium, ... i have, id rather live in the laid back attitude of miami in the sun

I have to agree, I'd love to live in NY or LA although if I did I would miss Coronation Street:bigsmile:

have you been the netherlands and belgium, ... i have, id rather live in the laid back attitude of miami in the sun [/quote]

To be fair, no! But I think I'm going to go.
Like I said, never seen america either so just speculating.

If I had to say what I'd rather the uk be like I would still say the netherlands though. I think america sets a lot of bad examples.

Also I know people who have been to Miami and weren't impressed. They said it was all just a bit samey and faceless. I don't think you have as much culture and history over there.

I am also scared by your ludicrously large homocide rates, gun laws, obesity, prisons, human rights records and policy on Iraq.

Of course, the uk is guilty of many such offences also, that’s why I’d like us to be more like countries such as the Netherlands.

...On the prisons thing, I saw a documentary exploring some of america's prisons and it scared the sh*t out of me! It was all gang wars between mexicans, blacks, whites etc... Just p*ssing at the wrong toilet could get you stabbed.

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt10k
...On the prisons thing, I saw a documentary exploring some of america's prisons and it scared the sh*t out of me! It was all gang wars between mexicans, blacks, whites etc... Just p*ssing at the wrong toilet could get you stabbed.

omg, i saw a documentary about prisons in finland as well, 40% of them commited suicide in one year! 80% of them have been homosexually abused and its a rising statistic.

then again northern europe does have the highest rate of suicides amongst there civilians, of all the developed world.

Quote:

Originally posted by Matt10k
To be fair, no! But I think I'm going to go.
Like I said, never seen america either so just speculating.

If I had to say what I'd rather the uk be like I would still say the netherlands though. I think america sets a lot of bad examples.

Also I know people who have been to Miami and weren't impressed. They said it was all just a bit samey and faceless. I don't think you have as much culture and history over there.

I am also scared by your ludicrously large homocide rates, gun laws, obesity, prisons, human rights records and policy on Iraq.

Of course, the uk is guilty of many such offences also, that’s why I’d like us to be more like countries such as the Netherlands.

nah, i dont think so, I think Depression in the netherlands is higher than in the USA, ... they have a higher rate of drug and prostituin problem,

Do you think The Netherlands is better than the UK?

Actually the US has far bigger drug and prostitution problems than the netherlands statistically and as for depression- who can know which country is more/ less depressed?

Also- 'nothern europe'? Can you be more specific? Indian and chinese women have the highest suicide rates according to one new study:

http://www.marginalrevolution.com/ma...rlds_high.html

Among males Lithuania has a very high suicide rate. The US isn't exatly low. It is slightly higher than the uk and other european countries:

http://www.who.int/mental_health/pre...iciderates/en/

Do you think The Netherlands is better than the UK? [/quote]

Yes.

I think what you didnt catch on is when i said developed world,

indian and chinese woman would have more of a reason to commit suicide than a woman in finland. Due to economic pressures...

then again weigh the size of the netherlands as a country compared to the USA and how much people there are in both countries.

in ratio, the netherlands due to there legalization of Cannabis, has a much higher rate of depression, and there obvious sex trade is far more 'liberising' than in the US.

so yeah, ill pull some webpages to prove it later... , but its a well known fact that northern europe has a higher suicide rate than any where else in the Developed world...

... due to the darkness, the cold e.t.c

Quote:

Originally posted by usa4eva
I think what you didnt catch on is when i said developed world,

indian and chinese woman would have more of a reason to commit suicide than a woman in finland.

then again weigh the size of the netherlands as a country compared to the USA and how much people there are in both countries.

in ratio, the netherlands due to there legalization of Cannabis, has a much higher rate of depression, and there obvious sex trade is far more 'liberising' than in the US.

so yeah, ill pull some webpages to prove it later... , but its a well known fact that northern europe has a higher suicide rate than any where else in the Developed world...

... due to the darkness, the cold e.t.c

But that isn't true. Lithuania isn't particularly developed either. The uk has a lower suicide rate than the US (check the link I posted). In fact, most areas of nothern europe, the differance in suicide rates when compared to the US is too marginal to be significant.

Also, on the 'higher rate of depression' I'd really need to see some evidence. I'd also like to know how any statistics can ever measure depression. For a start, they only ask small sample groups- not the whole population and people don't always tell the truth on surveys and there can be many things which bias the results. It's easy to misinterpret them.

Also, I believe that the netherlands liberal attitudes to drugs and prostitution actually help to reduce the problems they cause and make them easier to control and manage unlike the US.

Finally... suicide rates aren't everything. The US has the worlds highest homocide rate of any developed country. Several orders higher than most other countries in fact, even including other countries where guns are legal such as canada. Doesn't make me feel that great about living in the US...

sorry for the late reply

to be fair, again, the population size of america is probably bigger than most blocs of europe,...

... Lithuania isnt exactly situated in an economical bloc as bad as the bloc of south east asia and south asia.

Prositiuation in the netherlands is much greater than in the UK, even when out of the ratio's each countries population size, (Note: the netherlands now actually floats on sea, thats how small the netherlands is)

the link even states that genetics of northern euopre causes more suicides than the genetics of southern europe.

- http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/179/3/194

- http://www.ingentaconnect.com/conten...00004/art00002

if you want more evidence, ill keep them coming, boy lmao

from aneki.com......check the "more lists" to find this info....

Highest Suicide Rates in the World
Rank Country Suicides per 100,000 inhabitants per year
1 Lithuania 42.0
2 Russia 37.4
3 Belarus 35.0
4 Latvia 34.3
5 Estonia 33.2
6 Hungaryk 32.1
7 Slovenia 30.9
8 Ukraine 29.4
9 Kazakhstan 28.7
10 Finland 24.3

now you dont need evidance to compare those countries economic situations with the countries of south east asia and southern asia, do you?

You may want to check this table of drug abuse statistics worldwide. It indicates drug abuse in North America (as percentage of the population) for opiates is twice as high as the netherlands.

In the US, substance abuse as a percentage of the population is 0.6%. In the Netherlands, it is 0.3%. The united kingdom is 0.9%. Hence, The Netherlands has the lowest of the three.

For cocaine, the US abuse statistic, is 2nd only to spain at 2.8%. The uk is 2.4% and the Netherlands is 1.1% (again, much lower).

The US is also consistently higher for other serious drugs than the Netherlands and more often than not, higher than the UK also:

http://www.unodc.org/pdf/research/wd...prevalence.pdf

And also, this discussion is about the uk being the 51st state or wanting to be more like the US, so I made a point that I would rather the uk be like the netherlands than the US.

So I'm not sure what giving me the suicide rates for eastern block countries has to do with anything? Yes, they are higher. I already told you Lithuania was highest in an earlier post.

The reason I would rather the uk be more like the netherlands than the US is evidenced above. I would not like the uk to be like an eastern block country or the US...

funny how you acknowlegde that now...

you asked for evidance about the suicide rate, i gave it to you...

urm i dont know if it occured to you what would happen if the netherlands were as big as the US & UK (in land & population & economy), what would happen with there current policies if they were.

so if what do you think, would happen to the UK with the size in population and land difference if the UK adopted the same Canabis policies and prostitution trade policy

another thing is...

which country has a higher economy out of The Netherlands and the UK?

and The Netherlands vs the USA?

im just tryna work out what your view point on this was fabritaced out of...

the netherlands out of the UK & USA has less foreigners..?

the irony of it all is 'frustration with life', is what this topic go to, right matt?