[Livia]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Men declaring themselves women after being crap/mid league in their own sports, then declaring themselves women, and oddly enough then being top...has already happened, a few times, so saying it has not ever happened is just silly. Some of these men even argue against the testosterone requirements, saying its unfair to say they should lower them...Rachel McKinnon, looking at you! Even with the lowered testosterone, the levels they are required to lower them to...its still like 3x above the highest level women would have...so obviously unfair. Even if they lowered it more, there is the advantage of a male body, hormones do not lower lung capacity and such. Anyone who has been through male puberty should not compete in womens sports at all. Martina actually said that she thinks its different for transsexuals who have had the ops, I understand why she said that...as it is a lot harder deciding on people with that sort of commitment to 'being a woman' and of course people have a lot of sympathy for actual transsexual people rather than todays 'I am a woman' people who change barely anything, or nothing at all. However IMO, even those who have had the ops..they have the advantages still so should not be in womens sports. There are many reasons people cannot compete in sports, unfortunately, I think this is one of them also.

Yes niamh, the males who came 1st, second and third in that American race...Andrea Yarwood who got a scholarship off the back of it (sports are a lot more important in USA) were..well clearly cheating, but I understand why as..its so important to American kids..I don't blame THEM as such, I blame the people who allowed it to happen when its clearly unfair.

I don't blame the many men using this to beat women in various sports either really...though some (the likes of Laurel Hubbard) are very obviously just taking the piss. Its those who set the guidelines, who know its unfair but don't seem to give a ****.

Basically, that was a long way of saying Martina is not transphobic for suggesting men will use this to cheat, as men have already used this to cheat, are currently using it to cheat. I stand with Martina..which won't shock anyone on here at all

Dumping a LGB icon for pointing out obvious issues/some that are currently going on, is ****ing ridiculous.

Strongly agree, which will not surprise you... but in particular I agree with the last two paragraphs.