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Originally Posted by MTVN
Hardly appalling, it's pretty intrinsically connected to this conflict. If those celebrating in London last night had seen a Jewish person walking past I've no doubt they'd crank up those celebrations an extra notch. Again it's because of the lack of distinction between state and citizen, apparently any Israeli is a legitimate target and an extension of that is a hostility to Jewish people worldwide. I'm not accusing you of that but Hamas are explicitly anti-Semitic as are many Islamists.
I'm not arrogant enough to pretend to know the answer to the conflict but I know what it isn't. I also know that Hamas have been in control of Gaza for over a decade and have done nothing to advance the cause of peace. What they have done is oppressed their own citizens, ruled with an iron fist, used civilians as human shields, used rape as a weapon and killed innocents. Mostly while their leadership lives in luxury in Qatar by the way. The idea that Hamas care about human rights is laughable. These people are not your allies. I don't really know what it would take for some in the pro-Palestine movement to have their 'are we the bad guys' moment - apparently the rape, abduction and murder of innocent people isn't it.
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Feigning ignorance is not the avoidance of arrogance when it's paired with the insinuation that you do really know who the baddies are. It's nothing to do with allies, it's about the on-going genocide against the people of Palestine. Nelson Mandela was a terrorist until the 2000's.
You're throwing in any kind of other sh1t you can think of to avoid talking about the apartheid regime - that's the issue, not what some folks are up to in London.
Rape as a weapon of war or in any circumstance is fcuking atrocious, but you're acting as though this is a new thing introduced yesterday, when it has been happening in silence against the Palestinians for decades. I even posted a vid of a former IDF soldier laughing about it, they've shown lynchings on live TV.
If 60 years of oppression and a further escalation over the last 2 decades doesn't make you really have a "are we the baddies moment," then it's a detachment from reality and willful ignorance at this point.
Just one point about Hamas - they have a right to fight back under international law. Their actions were terrible in a lot of instances during this attack, but they do actually provide welfare and charity to the people of Palestine. I know people don't want o hear that, and I'm not a Hamas cheerleader, but the truth is the truth whether we like it or not.