[BBXX]

Originally Posted by vesavius

How does 'woke liberal' erase anything? It is simply a label to separate modern 'progressive' authoritarian liberal from mainstream 90s liberal.

It doesn't erase anything.

I'm actually a JoJo fan, but she is incredibly brittle shelled at times due to her upbringing. Woke 'liberalism' definitely also plays into this because it as an ideology teaches that there is social power in being seen as the victim. People are more complex than just boiling them down to 'gay or 'straight'.

If that kind of honest discussion is 'erasure' to you, then I guess we are never gonna agree on that so ok.

Your comment originally suggested that Mickey made his comments in the current climate of “woke liberalism” and so your insinuation is that JoJo took offence to gain social power, rather than because the comments were actually just offensive. That is undermining the homophobic remarks.

Straight people are under no obligation to allow themselves to be bullied into silence by the weaponisation of fake offence.

I agree in theory, but you yourself are deciding what offence is fake and what isn’t and then playing victim based off of your own made up benchmark, which isn’t actually reality.

If there is proof the offence is actually fake then fair enough, as that’s just a form of manipulation and is wrong but my point is you are setting a level of what you deem to be offence worthy and what isn’t and anything that veers into the “what isn’t” is then categorised as “weaponised fake offence”. My point is, as a straight person, that is not your level to set.

I think we should rationalise this further: your version of straight people being silenced extends to: “we can’t say what we want without repercussions to the offensive thing we said anymore”. In this case it’s that Mickey can’t joke about tying a young woman up and ‘changing’ her sexuality, he isn’t allowed to refer to her as ‘the lesbian’ and that he can’t call her a fag. Taking offence to that is either using it to gain social power, is being thin skinned or is just fake and is simultaneously silencing straight people.

Whereas gay people being silenced is: literally living as a different person short term or long term for actual safety or so straight people aren’t uncomfortable with gay people just existing.

For example, I knew I was gay from an early age and pretended to be straight until around 20. It was so ****ing exhausting, honestly. When I came out; I was the only gay guy in my friendship group. How open do you think my friends were in hearing me talk about my attraction to men; who in the bar I thought was good looking, my sex life? Despite me hearing it all from them about women since mid-teens. Now all is good, but even when out initially my straight mates just didn't want to hear about my gayness: I was still being silenced by straight people who couldn’t handle hearing from me all the things they had been guilty of speaking to me about. It was ****ing repressing even after 10 years of knowingly being in the closet and hiding every quirk about me I thought might be a ‘tell’ in exposing me as a gay boy.

Sorry you can’t say fag anymore without it being called homophobic though, I guess.

It's not that they have 'too much', it's how a lot of the more radicalised side of LGBT+ choose to use it that causes many on the receiving end of it to push back.

Many now have the rope and just want to use it to whip straight people with it as a revenge. I don't blame many straight people for not wanting to put up with that.

I am not going to deny there aren’t radicalised members of the LGBT community; that would be stupid and dishonest. But I do think there needs to be a bit of honesty here about the power imbalance that each group of people have at either end of the spectrum.

At the end of the day, LGBT people make up 3% of the population. Let’s say for instance a third of that are super hardcore radicalised LGBT people (which is generous), you’re talking 1% of the worlds population. They can’t really illicit much change and certainly not change that makes it hard to be straight. Not change that invalidates your marriage, gets you killed, changes the way you interact with your partner in public, limits your travel, changes the language you use to hide your sexuality just incase.

On the flip side, the extreme on the other end of the spectrum will make up far more of the population and yield far more power. Look at the US right now, rights are being removed for trans people (and for women, but that’s a whole different subject), books are being banned to quell education and representation and quite honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if they do to gay marriage what they did with abortion and have it decided on a state by state basis which would end up invalidating marriages between gay people.

The change that can and has and will effect gay people due to the radicalised right is far more dangerous than any radicalised LGBT person can do purely by the fact that straight people make up 97% of the population. Their straightness is never ever going to be under actual threat through the actions of the 1% of extreme LGBT people.

It’s been good to debate with you as always but I feel like I cant continue this conversation without repeating myself, though I will happily read your reply. I appreciate your time in this exchange. Have a good day.