[Maru]

Oh wow, it's Nick Viall. She's on Nick Viall's show... I didn't know he had a show. He is Bachelor alumni. This should be fun.

Note on the notes: I added my thoughts here and there, especially when I felt my sanity being stretched or something particularly funny happened (to me)

Gracias for being understanding.

Youtube video

Mickey Rourke
Timestamp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvKPzGcfSgk&t=674s

My Notes: I think listening to this portion of the video is completely worth it because there's bits here that obviously didn't make it to the show. I will bold the bits where that comes into play.

-Didn't know who he was at all
-Everybody else knew who he was (not sure on Ella, though)
-She's flabbergasted he got in the Congo Line at all now knowing how Mickey is really like in person. Doesn't think he listened to production... but was listening to his best friend/employee/asst Deema
-She doesn't feel bad he got evicted, "he needed to be kicked out"
-She felt bad he wouldn't have Deema until Monday and she felt bad about the timing of him being evicted
-He left stuff all over the place
-It took her an hour to work up the courage to tell him to take his stuff off her bed
-First interaction was him telling her he had got her "the best prize ever"

-Jojo is 100% sure if Mickey saw her on the street, he would ask if she wanted a picture... and says he probably won't remember anyone on the show. He might remember Daley.
-He is very in his own world. He walks his line and it's Mickey's line and that's it.

-He wanted to know where cigarette room was, he asked Jojo...
-After he came out (it seems), it's her and Michael on benches... Mickey, Chris, Jack (maybe Ella)... he started making smart remarks about "the lesbian over there"
-He double-downed on voting out the lesbian... then he used the f-slur. Chris steps in at that point.
-Didn't know Chris at that point, nobody knew each other... and for him to do that, that left an impression with her "and the entire LGBT community"... then Mickey made the sexually inappropriate commentary

On Mickey acknowledging any wrong-doing:

-Asked: Is it ignorant or him egging on?
-Mickey goes into DR, that's when he apologizes, etc...
-Viall seems more offended and disgusted at Mickey than her at this point
-She approached it as "He's an older guy who grew up in Hollywood and he might be a little bit of a weirdo"... that was her approach... she doesn't like it but she'll figure it out...

-She'd watched back the DR chat which they obviously couldn't see while in, and he comes out into the kitchen and she started to explain in the kitchen why he needs to make amends... and he didn't want anything to do with it, he said "You're going to kick a dog while it's down?"
-This is when Chris stepped in (we saw most of this it sounds like)
-Mickey said "I don't really care about your feelings". All this apparently didn't make the show.
-What tipped her over the edge is he said "I knew what I was saying and that's why I said it. I wanted to offend you. I knew it was going to offend you. That's why I wanted to do it. I like poking at a bear." <-- None of that made it supposedly --
-Mickey: "I knew it would offend you"
-That's when she stands up and says "very chill" (her words) "Why would you want to say something that you knew would offend me?" He was sitting.
-Mickey responded "Oh now you're going to stand up and attack me." She sat right back down. "No not my point at all. I just want to have a conversation with you." That's what made her upset.

My Notes: I think this could be the key context as to why he *might* have reacted to Chris' glaring at him with such severity...if him and Jojo were having serious issues early on and it wasn't as smoothed over as it was portrayed, then this may have added a bit more context as to why he though Chris' stare was meant to antagonize...

-That's when Chris really comforted her.
-She went into the DR and talked to BB and told them that she didn't feel safe with him, adding her bed was next to his... Chris said he would swap beds so they had a gap between the both of them.
-After that point, she says she can make an example out of this situation whether good or bad. So after that point she "will make it my mission" to "realize where he was coming from" and "make him realize where he's coming from" and honestly become friends with him... and talk to him about his childhood and why he isolates himself.
-They had good conversations and he wanted to know about "the community", talked about his childhood... she thinks nobody has talked to him about anything normal in a very long time.
-She said "He is not a good man." "He's gross and he's creepy" "He doesn't know right from wrong" "He's also a hurt man"
-Apparently Viall and her are friends <-- important maybe later if you care about interview bias
-Viall says his first defense of her is always "She's 21"
-She thinks of handling conflict as "gentle parenting" ... get to his eye level, have a calm conversation and ask him why his behavior is...

On Chris:

-Is saying that among her straight friends (including Viall), that several of them they all have different conversations with her... (that's relevant for some reason, I'm sure)
-She never knew of him. She used a viral clip against him but "didn't know it"... "Take a seat with me, I'm sat"... <-- she apparently uses this line by accident... but she did know he was Love Island.
-Everything happens for a reason and she says the issue with Mickey kick-started her friendship with Chris, and thinks that was fate.

On what brought them Chris and her together
https://youtu.be/GvKPzGcfSgk?si=dALHPRBeOh_DtO5L&t=1740

-They were so similar, their energies, their desire to have fun, their desire to make others feel good, their desire to work out... she goes into detail about a catch ball game they made with a sock and and a hairtie, dances they would make up and rehearse together to fill up the time...
-Knew when they were really close (early on it seems--"The first Saturday"), she was looking him and could tell something was wrong...
-She said he said something very similar to how she always feels... that he's always on, he loves having energy, making others feel good, but he also loves recharging... there is no recharge station in BB and he felt drained. She said she felt the same way but had a no way to formulate that the way he did.
-She had loads of realizations while in the house, he could tell by just looking at her body language and he could see it all throughout without talking through it. Their highest of highs were each other.
-She had no clue what was going on in the outside world regarding speculation of their relationship. She said she kept asking BB over and over about Katy Perry and whether she made it back.
-Long conversation about Katy Perry and cringe celebrities

Asked: "You learned a lot about yourself throughout this process".... asked the first thing that triggered a realization
Timestamp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvKPzGcfSgk&t=2158s

-She was looking at "her photo" (a group photo) that everyone had.
-"I wasn't happy this day"... there's not a single reason I shouldn't be happy this day, it's Disney World and Christmas.
-1st or 2nd day is when she had this realization and it opened a "cage" in a few different areas of her life and opened a "can of worms"
-For a few days it did her in. When she was occupied, she was fine and doing great and invested... the second she had a time to think, she would sit on a bike and she would think and her brain would start to run... so many things she shouldn't have been OK with and had tolerated that nobody should had come to mind and it had put a lot of things in perspective for her...

-It was hard to have those realizations and have nobody to talk them through with because they were in a public place
-She's in there having those realizations and she had to "super internalize it" and she realized that was the best thing for her because she could formulate her own thoughts for the first time... no family, no friends, it was "just me"...
-Explains having thoughts that are influenced by other people (uses choosing an outfit as an example)

(Getting into the Kath situation)

-In this stage as she approaches talking about Kath
-She's not avoidant of the situation with her ex, but her ex asked her not to talk about it
-Her and Chris are just friends and just a great friendship, he is meant to be in her life... those two relationships are completely unrelated
-Talking about "other people" speculating their relationship
-Viall is slating Kath a bit about the whole video she posted and not expecting anyone to respond

-Kath didn't want to go to the wrap party. Jojo understands it's not her venue. All the cast and families are in the hotel and they have to come down.
-She needs to talk to Jojo, talk to her mom and look at her phone and think about what's going on... she is in no place to talk
-Kath was upset Jojo was pushing the conversation until the morning.
-About an hr into the party, one of the welfare teams told her the partner wanted to come... sounds like she borrowed one of the welfare teams' phone to show video to Kath and said it's not really her scene, but if she wanted to come, she should come...
-She got told "something else she (Kath) didn't want" and that made her uncomfortable and she didn't like the vibe... and that made her feel very strange...
-Viall asked if it felt like a setup maybe, she said "Yeaah—" lol
-They got to the party and they had little huts, so she went to a room and they had a chat... and that conversation started immediate, they led the talking and she could only answer "I don't know" to all the questions... "Are you happy in our relationship", etc. She's getting "cussed out".
-Room with 200 people, hasn't slept in 24 hours, etc, not a good time for the conversation...
-"Are you happy, do you want to end things?" ... in the heat of the moment, she (Jojo) said if you ask me tomorrow, I don't know my answer, but if you ask me now, I'm going to say "yes" ... Kath took it as a yes apparently... (so she got the answer she expected and just wanted her to say it, is how I would interpret that...)

This is where I really question if Viall is really interviewing her or playing some part of PR.

-Viall says when he is watching, he didn't think they were having a thing....
-According to Jojo, the public saw the extent of the relationship and they're going to believe what they're going to believe, etc..
-Viall is asking Jojo why Kath would possibly be coming to Jojo at this point with "such a feeling a disconnect"... (as if that is absurd)
-Jojo responds it's on Kath to say why "I don't know, it's not my place to speak on behalf of them" "From me, there should've been no questioning... especially around the boundaries of our relationship"

This part around the topic of boundaries is vague. It's not explained what boundaries that were supposedly crossed according to Kath that everyone should've been fine with. I have no reason to be keen on either of them in this situation as I think if a partner goes on camera and trashes their SO partner to millions of people, it's bound to end terribly on some level. After all the reasoning is to finger point. A simple statement might've been fine I guess aka "Recollections may vary", but less entertaining...

Clip: https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxCYGpD7n...EN0cKnF9UCoNQ2
Timestamp: https://youtu.be/GvKPzGcfSgk?si=IPeOt8CS0WX_BQq4&t=2844

-V: "Were you presented with doubts about your actions with Chris?"
J: "While I was in the house? No."
"Because I straight up said 'What are your boundaries'" "I had a few boundaries with them while we were in the house, and they did proceed to break those boundaries"... this wasn't big enough for her to say anything, but she expected them for the "Next 20 days" (confident she'd stay it seems lol), to "can it with a few conversations" ... "those conversations" increased more... they had in-person(? hard to hear) ones as well..." ... at this point she is ending things anyway, so it's just "another reason"... "just another piece of pie on the plate" ...

So this is an interesting admission. She's more or less saying she'd already had it in her mind to break up with her. So not having the conversation wouldn't have changed very much.

Unless she means "at this point" of the conversation... but it could be a slip, also.

-Viall is asking why Kath would dare to show up pressing for answers following that whole experience after "literally coming out (no pun intended, surely) ... "of this mind*****"... "you would think they would have a bit more empathy"
-He then says Jojo had asked for a little bit of time and while I think that part is fair, it is odd bit weird to frame it up with "how dare she want to press"...

Kath's been watching her relationship implode on public television for weeks, so I can understand at this point she's a bit riled, seeing as she's stuck in the UK far away from her own support network at all having had to bottle this up for several weeks. She probably knows the answer and just wants it straight up from Jojo. Is it right she showed up to the party? Probably not because it was Jojo's moment. But the desperation at least makes sense as well as her hurt feelings and being overly emotional at this point. I wouldn't be shocked though if she wanted a fast enough confrontation so that she could get ahead of Jojo with her own video... because that's what people can do when they're this upset...

(Back to Kath)

-Paraphrase: It's hard to speak on. We had a mutual agreement. We broke up for these reasons. She knows this. That's not the reason they broke up according to Jojo.
-They had spoken a bit more it sounds like and Jojo was expecting she might update her video and let people know she had misled...
-Recaps what she said on the other morning show when she was with Chris talking about how they have a special bond and they don't know what the future will bring.
-Re: Kath; She had told Jojo not to speak on them. They were going to do their video and give more context... and asked them to not speak about them... there was no video, she reposted her video and "gave no context"
-While she was in the house, Kath's friend had (apparently) done something pretty bad "to them", her friend has been going off on social media and trying to spread the same misinformation... and that's the only reason she's speaking out on her own behalf in protection of her and Chris...

-"You don't get to ask me for a business class flight home (lol) and then do that" ... "when I already got you a plane ticket home" (lol) ...
-She did not do the above, apparently
-She was super shocked to see Kath's video
-Jojo did not watch the 13 minute video lmao
-Asked the ex if she wanted to share "what happened" "How it happened" ... her story and her life... but "Please do not lead to the false narrative that is out there that it was because of Chris"
-"There's so many reasons my breakup happened. Christopher is not one of them" "Maybe it would be easier if it was!" "If you're going to share the story, share the story"

(Thank God, we're moving on from the Kath monster situation)

Sexuality:
https://youtu.be/GvKPzGcfSgk?si=m2dRxHqDVy_6FHzz&t=3222

-Jojo now gets entertainingly melty "Did I really say **** being a lesbian!?" ... lolol...
-Danny and her had loads of conversations about being Queer and "it was beautiful"
-She's seeing the lesbian community (lol) come at her saying "How dare you!" (This made me laugh ngl)
-Fell in love with a female at age 17
-People are searching for something by saying she was never a lesbian

-According to Jojo, her mental gynastics gave her lucrative options such as "Maybe I'm...": pansexual, lesbian, bisexual.. to "I think I'm just gay"... "Nah, I think I'm just queer"
-Viall "Thanks for clearing that up"...
-According to Jojo, "No one can decide her sexuality" "Not even me" ... "I can't help who I fall for"
-She had the same realization at a young age with her height... she can't control her height... it was the same thing with her hairline, her voice, and her body weight <- That one broke me
-Danny made her realize she doesn't need to go in a box

Watch how this conversation flows... it's amusing when you see it...

"New Jojo"
Timestamp: https://youtu.be/GvKPzGcfSgk?si=JQCRcPWtZtRnBMbE&t=3485

-"... prior to going on Big Brother and experiencing this 'normal Jojo'" (is "Normal Jojo" some kind of brand?...)
-She has officially announced no more shock value Jojo... (nooo)
-V: "This brash shock value Jojo"
-Jojo: "Not anymore babe...
V: "We're done with that?"
Jojo: "I'm done with that..."
V: "Why?" (he barely gets to ask this and she starts answering)
Jojo: "So another realization I had in BB...I'm faking this!"

-"I am trying to do music and trying to get as big of clique as possible and shock as many people as possible... I was like I'm not happy with that!..."
-"So my next song coming out, actually, it's called Bulletproof. And it's about not actually being Bulletproof. (Ironically enough). The video is "purely dance"... "it's fun, it finally feels like back to just making art"... and not just making art "I hope will be successful".

So wait... this sudden realization in BB already has a full song AND A VIDEO? (Hollywood works fast)

The rest of the bits are heavily marketed language and other bits that aren't worth writing notes for.

Timestamp: https://youtu.be/GvKPzGcfSgk?si=xqah7QBtjSpnMXSn&t=3584

-Viall asks straight up if she thinks people around her will let her be normal (He doesn't think so)
-She says she doesn't feel it will be a challenge...
-Back to Chris: This friendship "feels so normal" ...

What does this "feeling normal" mean?... Normal is a word that is thrown around a lot throughout the conversation but is never actually defined. It's like it's being treated conceptually. Like "being normal" is just a thing to do because it is in vogue.

-"Her right hand man" is her Mom (gasp misogyny). She will be done when her Mom passes. She can do it without her, but she is the other half of her career and so she'd just stop, she thinks.
-She would consider opening a dance studio or a coffee shop
-Will embrace whatever her kids want to do. Maybe buy a soccer team for them...

About "48 hours later"

Timestamp: https://youtu.be/GvKPzGcfSgk?si=i7wtr0GL2jBLQzVd&t=3887
-She had just gotten her letter and it confirmed every thought and doubt she had...

This is where I can understand Kath's frustration a bit as it sounds a lot like she already understood what she intended to do, she just didn't want to say it at the wrap party. (And that's fair, tbh)

-She wanted to confide "in him" (Chris, apparently), but couldn't...
[b]-She found out the letter had gone through a few "Are you sure that's what you want to say?"
-Letter verified everything she was already thinking. "I think they're a wonderful human, not just for me"
-She doesn't know how her lovelife will look now and she's not dating

-Apparently Viall hasn't known her very long at all because when they met, he pointed out she was 21 based on some conversation about "figuring herself out" as she'd opened up to him... lol... I'm really skeptical of this "interview" at this point...

-Jojo is a "connection person", she needs comfort in someone... (we did see that in CBB, I think)

Jojo to her fans:

-On what she drew on his hand: She doesn't remember, "honestly"... I've noticed she uses that word a lot... They would talk for hours at night to try to stay awake, so it's easier for her to forget...
-Fans are asking about the "48 hours"

On the appearance of hers and Chris' interactions re:sexual/not sexual
Timestamp: https://youtu.be/GvKPzGcfSgk?si=gDQQQgUdkAyXjCro&t=4353

Transcript-ish (Murder me, please):

"Just for all the people who are listening to this and everything you're saying makes a ton of sense to me... and we all know the internet likes to run with the narrative and blow it out of proportion..."

"But if there is anyone out there and just says, no, I saw this with my own eyes... I saw what I saw. You guys have something special. There's like this connection... like what do you want people to realize or know about this relationship with Chris(?)"

"... and why it can be what it is in your mind and still be nothing more than platonic like... there are I think there is a lot of ignorance in like people who are confused about the conversations around sexual identity and things like that."

"And then we put in these like barriers of our head of what we think that means or what that doesn't mean... so like, why do you feel like you could connect with Chris the way that you did? You know, there's the scenes he　is kind of carressing you on the back"

Jojo: "Who says no to a back scratch? (x2)

"--I get it.. why can you do that? / And it doesn't have to mean it's some sort of sexual thing or why it doesn't have to mean, you know, you're questioning your sexuality because of this man, etc etc."

FYI, that was a 1 minute plus long "question"...

Jojo: "I'll be so honest. I wish I could explain it. (It's ok, Jojo, Viall explained it for you...)

-Chris was the last person she saw because they did the morning talk show. She wrote a sappy text to him: "I love that I can't explain. I love it. It just is. It just exists." <-- What does this explain, actually?
-Thinks that people can see their relationship is special

Well yes, but what kind of special? That's what they care about...

-Not worth trying to convince others.

Then why does it matter what people see...

Questions "from Fans":
Timestamp: https://youtu.be/GvKPzGcfSgk?si=S1dRuauUQepGNGn4&t=4481

So this was a weird bit of reframing, and I think intentionally? She's meant to answer questions from "fans".. but only what she thinks they want answered... so it's like giving her an opportunity to give a closing statement without outright saying that's what it is. Just make it her final statement lol.

-She says "a lot of people" didn't think their friendship was genuine. Was she talking about the other people aka HMs, "the public"? If Viall could interview, we could know this...

(This one bit is potentially very telling)
-She said that other people had said they had thought she and Chris were using each other. She said that was hilarious to them because if they weren't genuine "they would take each other off in two seconds if we weren't genuine"

Opinion: Parts of the interview seemed there was definitely some scripted answers, because they would refer to things without clear context. There's a few spots like that that are very jarring.. the spot with the photo was like that where she mentions the photo, talks in depth about what triggered her about it, but then forgot to explain the context of the photo (time place, amount of people)... there's lots of little things and then Viall inserting himself into the answers that made the conversation not seem free-flowing, but rather everyone had a clear enough idea what was going to be said and brought up...