These are collected data that were inarguable in another thread. Since it is difficult for some to understand facts, statistics and academic texts - these will be difficult reading but give it a chance.
It's practically evidence against Cannabis being legalised from it's effects on mental health, the effects on crime and the rise in terrorism as well.
(Obviously in post two we have the embarrasing "Alcohol kills people so let's legalise Cannabis to kill more people" but let's owe that to naivety eh
)
Enjoy - it's a big read but it gets lost in the other thread because it's difficult to understand but as a first post people can relate to the studies and the facts and understand why it will not be legal.
I'll also post this in a new thread so if you have any questions you have easy access about Cannabis
The truth about Cannabis
That means not stoner videos and misinterpretations you make. Oh... just realised you'll probably see this through the lefty liberal idealistic unreal wonderland. Anyway, I'm a giver, I'll try.
Here you go. Counter argue these.
I have posted studies - the height of your intelligence is posting videos uploaded by Stoners on Youtube. Well done.
Now - welcome to the big leagues.
Let's see if after asking for the 50th time you can counter argue all of this.
Here we go again - part 50. Let's see if you can do it.
[rquote=2608376&tid=147499&author=MassiveTruck]Let me start by saying, if you accept my view on things, fine, I will disappear.
If you abuse and insult and make out you know better without evidence, then I will return.
Well I don't know if it's your lack of knowledge, your ignorance to facts or your inability to answer and respond to questions that makes me laugh or in fact the videos you post from the pro cannabis council - or maybe it's your need to hurl insults and abuse that makes me laugh a lot.
For instance Probe Eight, you basically repeat yourself about he same thing. It can be responded with the simple answer as -
it's propoganda you're posting that has no relevance to the global problem and ignores it as well.
Those videos for instance. They are biassed. You do know that all those pro-cannabis websites don't have an iota of evidence for what they say.
While Setanta you think that if you put yourself forward as smart or intelligent then you can get away from answering questions, mainly by belittling the person you are responding to.
You seem to think the mental health problem is due to hydroponics but that's not true either because most people take Cannabis for it's high THC content and therefore need these types of strains to feel sedated and basically escape from their lives. All Cannabis has these problems (see small number of links below)
You do know that Portugal only legalised drugs because of the massive drug problem they had (which was causing problems for the economy) so they decided to tax insurance companies and create rehab treatment and other ventures to make money from addicts. People in rehab in Portugal is through the roof by the way - and this due to decriminalising of drugs - so it makes it easier to be an addict? Get it.
Portugal has stopped targeting drug dealers and instead just shove people into rehab. They are still there, it's just their life is easier - which... erm... is what I just told you? Yeah.
Please, join the dots. It's not hard.
I mean seriously, criminals will disappear because users will buy their stock from shops... erm... yeah... that will happen, I am sure... if you're naive that is. Wow...!
Anyway, cutting a long story short... I might as well just post some links for you to respond to.
Before you read them, realise that some people, in fact the vast majority of people have a life and they don't need drugs and you forget about the peopel who have families, friends and health systems who have to struggle due to drugs.
Go for it. It's liberty isn't it - not mine but at least I care. That's the difference between me and you.
Reply to these. Enjoy.
Cannabis alters DNA, lowers immunity, heightens disease risks
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/ca...study/477395/1
Schizophrenia link
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2407027.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4486548.stm
Marijuana withdrawal symptom
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/disp...54701?verify=0
Rise in drug deaths due to Cannabis rise
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...aths-rise.html
Problems with drug dealers and rise in crime due to downgrading
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/p...locked-up.html
Cannabis could kill thousands
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2995275.stm
Cannabis use, hundreds of deaths a year
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ner-warns.html
Cannabis users five times more prone to violence
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/ca...study/477395/1
Drug use spirals - review drug laws
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...944CBF228BDB97
Portugal's (and other country's) soft use on cannabis causes problems elsewhere
http://www.lca-uk.org/news/shownewsa...rticleid=14736
Problems in dealing with drug related problems
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m72755578r724363/
Decriminalisation in portugal leading to lowering of drug use is due to fiddling of statististics
http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...893946,00.html
Portugal's rise in drug treatment rockets due to decriminilization
http://www.emcdda.europa.eu/html.cfm/index35987EN.html
Marijuana withdrawal and nightmares
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthrea...e5557b&t=95618
Rise in rehab due to cannabis downgrade
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ed-double.html
Problems with studying cannabis due to strains and mental health issues and side effects
http://www.parliament.the-stationery.../15107.htm#a12
Schizophrenia/psychosis and cannabis
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=30
Problems with drug treatment with sex offenders due to legalisation in California
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/us/27parole.html?hp
Drug trafficking in Canada leads to Murder capital (take note of legalisation effects here!!)
http://www.vancouversun.com/farming+...138/story.html
Drug trouble in Canada's Paradise
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8231534.stm
Marijuana and testicular cancer
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb...he-marijuana16
Cannabis and suicide
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle3953555.ece
http://www.abc.net.au/health/minutes...es/s473102.htm
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...-to-death.html
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/s...007061,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/405259.stm
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....s_suicide.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1156893.ece
http://www.eastbourneherald.co.uk/ha...ile.5260493.jp
http://www.lep.co.uk/news/Hanged-man...ion.5276374.jp
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...C4FE611DDB7A19
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...s-suicide.html
Canada's Drug Crime rate due to decriminilising
http://www.winnipegsun.com/news/cana.../10955301.html
Drug rehab for kids on cannabis
http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/n...A20%3A48%3A330
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/ch...50-a-week.html
http://www.wellsphere.com/wellpage/marijuana-rehab
Addiction
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...addiction.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle5946633.ece
Mental Illness
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...ts-397449.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...bis-users.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0602160845.htm
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin...alse&lecture=1
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin...alse&lecture=1
http://www.gnmhealthcare.com/cgi-bin...alse&lecture=1
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/head..._psychosis.xml
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/head...hosis_risk.xml
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/head..._psychosis.xml
http://www.primarypsychiatry.com/asp...articleid=2038
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...gy-440730.html
http://www.mentalhealthcare.org.uk/content/?id=27
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...a98f9ab41ded86
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...llness-40.html
http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/ne...ned_by_police/
http://www.psychiatrymatters.md/head...s@ntlworld.com
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/con...t/66/1/95?home
Dutch problems with Cannabis
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...SpG82yJ8piAGlg
California problems with cannabis
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/may...ion/oe-maher21
Drug dependency in newborns
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...t-1693502.html
Causal association between cannabis and psychosis
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/abstract/184/2/110
Slavery and Cannabis
http://www.newstatesman.com/law-and-...farms-children
Cannabis overdose
http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/new...46-23684609/2/
Pharmaceutical, clinically developed drug so no need to smoke cannabis for MS
http://www.pharmafocus.com/cda/focus...492783,00.html
Skunk Knife murderer
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...D6DE77E0635A80
Psychotic Cannabis user knifes policeman
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...ath/article.do
Cannabis induced driver leaves girlfriend for dead
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...-to-death.html
More on pharmaceutical use of cannabis to stop "recreational use"
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...t-anymore.html
Man stabbed to death
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...y-brother.html
Portugal fall in crime rate is due to decriminilisation - problems still rife
http://www.addictionpro.com/ME2/dirm...B52AD812DC3644
Quote:
|
Although the report does not make this case itself, perhaps the most radical interpretation of comparative international data like this is that the specific penalties (or lack thereof) in place have less impact on drug use patterns (for better or worse) than we’re often inclined to think …
|
Drug peddling
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/44286...ne_by_bicycle/
"recreational" effects on family
http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-e...-dealer-father
Drug enduced fatal accident
http://austriantimes.at/index.php?id=14004
Cannabis used as rape drug
http://www.3news.co.nz/News/National...4/Default.aspx
[/rquote]
I loved destroying you here the most by the way. I laughed so much and I didn't need any drugs to induce that. Honestly I didn't. THat might be hard to believe but I don't need drugs to have pleasure. It's just I've been brought up like that.
[rquote=2609906&tid=147499&author=MassiveTruck][rquote=2609146&tid=147499&author=ProbeEight]
Quote:
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Maybe go to Portugal and see all the Cannabis sufferers in the rehab clinics the Government is making millions in tax from.
|
Maybe go to California, and take the Cannabis straight out of the hands of people suffering from a range of ailments, whose only grace and relief is Cannabis. Go on. Save the world. You hero, you.
I am not responsible for people smoking Cannabis going insane. The fact is, and make no mistake about it, this is a fact, anybody who wants Cannabis can get it. It's not hard. So make it legal, make it safer, and make it cleaner.
Quote:
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They fuel an industry that exploits people by selling a drug to them
|
In addition to failing to respond to the actual FACT I had laid out that stated more people benefit from Cannabis, even on a recreational basis, than suffer from it, you also just provided an argument for legalization. Shot in the foot. Well done.
But wait ... whats this ... you think people would STILL risk going to dealers for cheaper Cannabis when they could GROW IT FOR FREE?
Says it all.
Quote:
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All chronic users suffer from life long problems by the way. But you chose to ignore that.
|
Yes. Because it is not a verified scientific fact. ALL users? Bit of a bold claim, even by your standards.
BUT here is what kills poor old MassiveTruck off...
Quote:
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You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
|
CBD is Cannabidiol. THC and CBD are both Cannabinoids [as opposed to 'Canniboids']. Yet you mention all three as being EXCLUSIVE of one another. You really have no idea, do you?
Quote:
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The lack of THC and the higher the CBD - means no sedation.
|
Wrong. High CBD creates Indica strains of the plant. Known for a high sedation and body stone. As opposed to Sativa strains where THC is more dominant, characterized by a more 'trippy' head high.
There are strains of Cannabis out there that provide no sedation at all. But what does it matter. You had no idea what CBD was to begin with, considering you mentioned it separately to both Cannabidiol and a Cannabinoid, even though CBD IS Cannabidiol and Cannabidiol IS A CANNABINOID.
And then you tell ME in the same sentence you formed around your errors to read up on it?
Your dead in the water. Post all the meaningless s*** you want back. Rational people still know a legal Cannabis market is safer than an illegal one. The amount of people who develop problems from Cannabis is a tiny fraction of the overall userbase. Most of these problems come from Cannabis that could be ended if it were made legal. A ****ing meerkat could understand that logic.
Enough of this mess. I am no longer wasting time arguing with a bully who loves to goad others into arguments to then make them feel terrible about themselves. Your remarks about sedation, THC and the other components of Cannabis prove to me you have no idea what you are talking about and you are currently in the process of schooling yourself about Cannabis just to make some people feel terrible about themselves.
So go ahead, post ANYTHING you like back. It matters not. Not after this...
Quote:
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You should really consider reading up on CBD, Cannabidiols, Canniboids and also THC too. Really know the difference man. Seriously.
|
So we have four separate things, all of which I should know the difference between?
Now, over to your precious Wikipedia...
Quote:
|
Cannabidiol, also known as CBD, is a cannabinoid found in Cannabis.
|
Oh dear me! Your cover has just been blown! Post back with what you like, wind up merchant, but you have NO idea what you are talking about! Why should anybody bother to reply to your points? Your finished!
LOL! Now thats put me in the mood for a smoke!
[/rquote]
Hmm... You actually think people will grow enough Cannabis for themselves? That's illogical and not possible... That's why crime will rise 10 fold without it.
How many plants for how many spliffs? Do you see how it's impossible?
This is why crime will rise as crime (with the evidence I have shown you) has risen in Portugal, Canada, US and all across Europe to traffic in drugs to countries where it is legal...
Yeah? Come on...
I have given evidence for this but you're trying to make out there is truth to this.
I would love to know if you can actually reply to everything I posted instead of manipulating tit bits to make it sound like I got something wrong. Is that possible?
I mean, you just twisted something I said and said I was wrong (when I wasn't) and then said you're going to get a smoke.
Anywhere, here is a link regarding THC and the sedating effect to rubbish your misinformed view about sedation.
Enjoy... (I doubt)
This is from a BBC documentary. This is a showing a plant where they are removing "good products" from "certain cannabis plants" which have have Cannabinoid properties beneficial to medicinal gains.
You should really read up. READ UP... because in the real world, (away from the idiots writing on Wiki) people will laugh at you totally.
Read those links I posted. This is free advice. Nobody else will give it you.
Watch from 1:51 - this was on the BBC a while back
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oa6dX1Ok8rY&NR
Take note he talks about run of the mill Cannabis strains with anti-psychotic properties. Google this guy - he has studied Cannabis for years. Move on to where he is
Quote:
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"as recreational cannabis plants are grown for higher THC content so their CBD content (medicinal properties!!!!) falls, simply because the plant is unable (operative word!!) to produce high level of both"
|
Read up.
Free advice. Because you haven't got a clue.
You have sidestepped a lot of what I have said and I have responded to you with evidence. Clear as it is.
Your views on California are flawed! Utterly.
[/rquote]
And...
[rquote=2610114&tid=147499&author=MassiveTruck]I've had enough.
There is evidence against everything you say.
You make out because Alcohol (which is legal, probably the reason why if you think about it) kills more people, then Cannabis should be legal.
No consideration for all the suicides, the terrorist opportunism and the countless problems with it.
Carry on.
If this is the beliefs you love. Enjoy.
Before I go - Some studies
Suicide and Cannabis by the way
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...TRY=1&SRETRY=0
Oh and a twins study with cannabis and suicide
http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/con...act/61/10/1026
I love this one
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...85f36f697418a9
Quote:
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Early-onset of cannabis use by females (but not for males) signaled excess risk for suicide ideation (RR = 2.9; p = 0.006).
|
You'll love this
http://pt.wkhealth.com/pt/re/addi/abstract.00008514-200209000-00010.htm;jsessionid=K1YM1nD9kbqSXRsxFDPvgZhGf0R11 K2GYG2dVyr6SYjQKrb7nZld!-670034922!181195628!8091!-1
Quote:
|
Cannabis use, and particularly regular or heavy use, was associated with increased rates of a range of adjustment problems in adolescence/young adulthood-other illicit drug use, crime, depression and suicidal behaviours-with these adverse effects being most evident for school-aged regular users. The findings reinforce public health concerns about minimizing the use of cannabis among school-aged populations.
|
Oh erm... cannabinoids and suicide risk due to the endocannabinoid system - wow - it's in our brains already so it triggers suicide. WOW!
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...c9ed575ac017af
Just before I go. You know, there are alike hundreds of studies like this. Studying suicide rates amongst cannabis users. Off the top of my head - that's like thousands, just for the studies. WOWZER!!!
Just a taster of what you're supporting.
Enjoy![/rquote]
..
.
.
.
[rquote=2610222&tid=147499&author=setanta]And you're still posting websites that I've already responded to, stating that of course young adults would be illequiped to deal with any type of drug and those studies also indicate that there's an awful lot of other factors involved, including genetic predisposition. What I'm basically trying to state is that we all realise that every type of drug can be abused and can have a terrible effect on the young and those who are susceptible to mental illness, but it's your hypocrisy that really is astounding considering that there are many drugs that are far more dangerous. I've already answered this!!
You just continue on your quest, without listening to or reading any other surveys that we've posted. And we're not on a mission to demonise other drugs here; just trying to have a balanced conversation here regarding the drug and yet you continue to post isolated incidents of acts of violence that sometimes have a tenuous link to cannabis. Should I post ones relating to alcohol? Or maybe eating disorders,etc? This is all about people having a choice and taking the power out of the criminals hands, so that the drug can be monitored, controlled and the quality of the product can be insured. [/rquote]
Surveys you've posted? What surveys?
Oh right... I get it, now you're lying in order to show people that you have actually posted something legible when you haven't posted anything legible at all.
Oh right... so you resort to lying (a bit like in the Muse thread as well..? Yeah? OK) in order to save face.
Counter argue what is written. I dare you, I double dare you.
Go for it.
Here are some facts for you to chew on.
http://www.idmu.co.uk/cannabis/canna...n-britain.html
Scroll down to Health Problems and you'll see the effect it has on 1 in 2 users of Cannabis. Regular users have regular problems with the drug.
Problems range from
Headache, Paranoia, Chest Problems, Panic Attacks, Anxiety, Psychosis, Apathy,
Running out (addiction) 6.3% of users suffer from this all the time, that is 1 in 20, 1 in 3 suffer from this more than occasionally).
Balance, Motor Skills (accidents) and Vomiting.
Now compare problems to frequency of use. You see a clear relationship that those who take it regularly have problems with the drug. In light of this every individual who takes it regularly has some problems with it on a regular basis BUT
They still take the drug.
Then you have the nerve, the audacity, the arrogance, the ego to say that, oh it's just kids oh it's just a few people, oh it's just the criminals. How dare you. How the hell dare you ignore all I have put forward and lie your way through everything you say to save face. Your position on this is null.
You have no grounds at all to counter argue -
because you do not understand any of the stuff I posted.
That is the bottom line to this.
I posted numerous recent studies on suicide and mental illness, and you ignored it. The laughable factor is you try and save face by saying you know that it gets abused - well hey what genius - take a look at the statistics and look at the effects of the abuse.
You then have the pathetic nerve to say everybody will grow their plants in their home. If it's that cheap and convenient - why isn't everybody doing it now? Oh I guess you're going to say it's illegal - that was your excuse.
Christ you do make me laugh.
Like I said, and listen up clearly.
You don't have faith in the government when it's illegal but oddly, pathetically, laughably, you seem to have faith in the government when it is legal?
That has to be the most funniest contradiction ever. The most widely used drug in the country will lead to massive fashion to grow Marijuana in every household and criminals will disappear.
The naivety is insane
Anyway, just going to requote the stuff you haven't replied to yet, for your benefit.
Well done.
So there you have it. Statistical evidence against Marijuana legalisation.
It highlights how it is abused for medicinal purposes. Abused by people for medicinal purposes. The mental health problems for ALL EVERY user and a counter argument that is indeniable and completely breakable
IF YOU READ IT!!!
Deal with it but hey - everybody needs their something - even a bunch of losers who need Cannabis. WEll done this is your life. Don't know about music, don't know about drugs!