[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Whereas the Qu'ran is dictated to a scribe by Muhammad.

I would not believe a word of that. It is a madman's 'insane dark version' of what he thought a Bible Book 'might sound like',
and,
was reworked by Arab poets (who were very good) to make these psychotic rantings sounds as much like 'eloquent beauty' as possible.

If you view that "One reads the Hadith believing the authors are TRYING TO WARN PEOPLE " you really do show the messed up trains of your thought process,

No, the truly screwy thinking is to ACTUALLY believe they are doing anything BUT warn you.
They read like 'Witnesses to a murder' who are trying to testify he REALLY DID THIS!
Aisha is TELLING PEOPLE he REALLY DID have sex with her when she was 9 years old.
Only a Muslim thinks that is 'helpful account' but to anyone else in the world it is CALLED A POLICE REPORT.
The others actually describe and confirm Mohammad REALLY DID behead Jewish boys. Really.
Any other people on earth call that Hadith A WAR CRIME TESTIMONY,
but,
You don't even see that.

The tradition of the chivalric "knight in shining armor" can be traced back to the Arabs, with notable figures like the Bedouin knight Antar The Lion (580 AD). He is believed to be the model of this tradition. Charles Reginald Haines noted traits "such as loyalty, courtesy, munificence...are found in eminent degree among the Arabs." Medieval Spain, which he calls the "cradle of chivalry", could bear that pre-modern title, due to the direct impact of Arab civilization in Al-Andalus. "Piety, courtesy, prowess in war, the gift of eloquence, the art of poetry, skill on horseback, dexterity with sword, lance, and bow" was expected of the elite Moorish knight.

To listen to Muslim apologists you think all you need to do is claim some 'unproven' era and that somehow cancels out what we do know about Mohammad's vicious bloodbath,
and,
that the Muslim world was and often still is full of brutality and ANYTHING but Chivalry.
In fact to this day Al Quaida and half the Muslim world cannot even understand why everyone else thinks their 'Heroes' are in fact the most cowardly and disgusting type of human there is - suicide bombers, kidnappers, terrorists.
The lowest and most cowardly un-chivalrous possibly extreme you can go.

But since you want to 'barter and haggle' truth with this imaginary 'golden age' of Islam nobody ever seems to substantiate then consider this:
- The Moors were the ones properly INSIDE Europe,
and,
Closest to the Europeans.
Think about that.
Now consider this further yet - at the best days the Moors are all but considered estranged and 'different' from the real core of the Islamic world deep in the Arab Peninsula.
Think about that.

I ask you to stop and think about that.
The 'best of Islam' was the FURTHEST BRANCH that was CLOSEST TO EUROPE.
Now Question?
Hmmmm... what does that tell you?
Hmmm... do you think that is a very good indicator that it was the Moors WHO TOOK FROM EUROPEANS?
Hmmm?
Yes it does.
IF you don't see why that 'makes sense' then don't talk and think longer.

"I should attribute the origins of love to the influences of the Arabs' poetry and chivalry upon European ideas rather than to medieval Christianity."

Yes, it is a big politically correct antiwestern (mostly by BBC liberal types) trend to now try and credit Muslims with everything,
but,
It is true that Arabia had (BEFORE MOHAMMAD) some of the worlds greatest poets AND definitely some of the most sexual and romantic poets (and other arts).
Before Islam.
Pakistan definitely had that too.
BEFORE ISLAM.

But chivalry.. well Mohammad didn't have it as he horrifically slaughtered and humiliated, robbed and raped his 'opponents'.
Keeping in mind 'opponents' was anyone from Jews to Pagans to some innocent caravan that 'Did Not' submit to him.
and,
The Muslim world didn't have it when the West showed up like 'Futuristic advanced aliens' into the third world wasteland that was the Muslim-Arab world,
and,
MORE important to this conversation is that those young men who decide to become more and more adherent to Islam fall into more and more disgustingly cheap and cowardly backstabbing behavior like hijacking planes into civilian buildings or poisoning subways of working people.
Absolutely the most shameful cowardly 'jihad' type behavior known to man.

So al-Qaeda existed back in the 11th Century? Or they sent operatives back and wrote the Qu'ran themselves.

Well in a very real sense Al Quaida IS about going back in time to the 6th and 7th century Arabia.
At that time the West was just about 'Christianised' and was just starting their advanced civilization that was founded on these ideals (we now call them 'romantic' sadly) about honour, mercy, justice,
and,
by the time of the Crusades had what has nearly been called one of the most peaceful, egalitarian, fair and just eras in the history of the human civilization.
(that might not be saying much considering how BAD humans have been),
but,
that was about as close as we got.

Of course 'chivalrous Islam' decided to just keep taking over Europe by sword and that did not work out too well for them.
They did try again - this time sending a more chivalrous guy like Saladin with more European attitudes and methods,
but,
You know.. again we are more worried about the 10 guys dedicated to Islam who will capture a Jewish reporter and 'moan' Koran verses as they film themselves slicing their heads off with a kitchen knife.
NO outcry or condemnation will come from the Muslim community either.
That tells you everything.