[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...I really don’t think it is more of an ‘I’m alright Jack’ attitude now, Joey...I agree with you in that one of the fundamental differences was the absence of a welfare state back in the day ..you know, when people receive acts of thought and kindness directly from someone they know or even a stranger, that touches them so much more because it’s so personal so it would obviously create much more of a community and pulling together type feeling ..and obviously that’s all there was back in the day without any state help, so the feeling would be that people were kinder/more caring back then..but equally as in now, some people/neighbours etc would have been thoughtful for struggling families and some wouldn’t have been, I don’t think that’s something you can generalise about either because it’s just people and their different characters like everything in life and like then and like now... and I think that there was probably as much ‘judgement’ back in the day/the gossipy over the garden fence type thing... it’s just that it wasn’t media/internet fed and driven but that doesn’t mean that it didn’t exist, I think that it more meant that people were more only prone to be aware of their own small community/environment and very little beyond that...so really only had a much more limited perspective...

...hmmmmm, I remember a thread once on here and I think it was a single mum who was on benefits who had spent a huge sum of money on her children at Christmas..it was quite a while ago and I think you can imagine there where many judgements of her in that and many opinions etc...but those negative judgements of her if I recall came from both people who were in work and people who weren’t...hmmmm, should she really be spending all of that money on gifts when I have a job and I can’t afford or wouldn’t do that ..?..but also from those in a not too dissimilar situation to hers because her choices were different to those that they themselves would make and there was a large amount of disapproval with that...so there will always be and has always been judgements ..but from my experience many people do still pull together and think of others as you have shown with your old TVs etc, for some it might be something similar, or maybe making sure that someone is able to do their shopping if they struggle with transport, or making sure that they’re aware of all benefits that they’re entitled to, that they have the facilities to and are able to prepare hot meals for themselves etc...and just generally doing whatever they can if they see a family struggling or someone living on their own, someone who is less able etc...those things are still around, Joey because they’re to do with people and people’s character just as much as they always were and yeah equally there are and always have been people who don’t think about others so much or what they can actively do to help ....

...the technology that we have now and the information available now is a great thing and a really positive thing but obviously there will always be some negatives as well with that, and one of those is the often negative portrayal and judgement of anyone who is unable to work for whatever reason...but virtually no one I know in real life or indeed on the forum ‘buys into’ thinking that it’s any more than the small percentage of what could be described as ‘scroungers’ than it actually is ..in the same way though, I think it’s also equally wrong to generalise in an ‘I’m alright Jack’ kind of way because that’s lumping together and judging a huge amount of people wrongly and it makes me sad that you feel that’s your overall experiences of the many people you have met... because some with less will still give and do whatever they actively can and think of others and some will not..some with more will give and do whatever they actively can and think of others and some will not and I think really that’s always been the way through times and times and times....

It has always existed, as you say there was always those who believed you make your own luck, yet due to work from reformists and philanthropists the message got to those who did feel that a progressive community would benefit from the promotion of an altogether more equal civilised society.
At first the support came from the church and friendly societies.
There wasn't any state help and therefore more were willing to see them get a leg up, today that process appears to be moving in reverse as sanctions make those who can't manage worse off and the slums areas are reappearing.
Therefore comparisons can be drawn, it's becoming more accepted that sections of society be left to 'sink or swim', and again it's the role of the churches, hostels and benevolent trusts set up to provide aid.
With working people conditioned not to concern themselves as these shirkers are not tax payers., it's made even worse as there's no excuse now that you aren't aware of it because in the modern day the word is the touch of a button away.

Was this me?... It could've been. This is a perfect example of the individualism argument, its not seen as a positive that this woman whoever she was made an enjoyable Christmas for her children on welfare...
It's not taken into consideration the child support received from the absent parent, any loans taken, toy/food savings clubs, help from family. But yes the general consensus is now how can she do that? It almost seems they would be more satisfied if the kids had nothing and she was begging for scraps doesn't it?..

The removal of coverage to protests, media bias, demonisation of sub groups, removal of charity funding, reforms it all adds to the burden, and yes there will always be nice people who will try to help its not advocated, in fact it's the welfare reforms that are blamed for many of the issues in the UK today. From the leafy burbs to major towns and cities the neo liberal laissez faire attitude is generally accepted as it was in the 40s, a direct correlation, that can be denied and ignored but it doesn't make it any less true.