Quote:
Originally Posted by kirklancaster
Jamie - please read back through the thread and the long posts which I have posted on here.
They are factual and truthful and should convince anyone who is undecided that a 'Brexit' is the only possible result.
This isn't about Kirk Lancaster, or Joey Steele - it's about the most important decision this country will ever have to face in modern times, and I have invested the time and trouble to plead the case for a Brexit because ALL the genuine evidence of the past 42 years right up to the present proves that economically, politically, and security-wise, leaving the EU is the only sensible decision.
The 'In' camp do not present any type of case - apart from scare-mongering and making uncorroborated statements which are not corroborated because there are no genuine facts with which to corroborate such statements.
This country's hundreds of billions of pounds net payment deficit with the EU is what is propping the ailing EU up and it will collapse under the weight of its own failings once we exit, but if the upcoming decision is to remain - something Cameron and his elite friends both corporate and private, so desperately desire for their own financial ends - then the EU will drag this country down with it.
Please read my posts, follow any links, and do your own research, because you are a very intelligent man and the results of this vital referendum should not be decided by anyone other than those who have tried to inform themselves of the facts - no matter which way they eventually vote.
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Excuse me, where do I come into this, I don't expect anything on this thread to be about me, you asked a question at the start of the thread and I like others have answered it.
I have never said a word to Jamie on the issue, I merely post my opinion, not using negatives as to out and admitting there are also issues within the EU.
Why should what you say be more relevant than those with a differing view to yours,I respect all peoples views even if I think them wrong, right, agreeing with me or not.
However what I will say in response since for no reason whatsoever you chose to include my name in your response to the poster.Instead of posting or at least as well as,the endless stastistics, only negative to the EU from you, perhaps you would actually get round to detailing in full with full costings what I and others have been asking the out camp,on and off here, the trading deals we would get, can get, who with, how much the likely tarriffs will be, what conditions will, not might, be placed on the UK as to those deals.
How our actual security would be better separating from Nations rather than staying together.
List the implications and how we would overcome them, we know problems will arise at times economically,how guaranteed and easier would be solve those out of the EU rather than in.
I am not saying we couldn't,I am saying I am not sure we could and I so I certainly don't have the confidence that the UK would do better out of the EU in the long run.
Those are the questions that need to be fully detailed, assured and answered with full costings too from the out camp.
I have not said to anyone on here, I think, who is undecided,that my way is right totally and that there would not be problems to overcome in the EU as well as out.
However I can point to the fact we 'have' already many times while in the EU come through difficult periods while not on our own
Now I read Jamie's post and accepted he has to make his own mind up,so if you want to hammer your statistics at him do so but do not use my name please.
As I would never want to pressure anyone,all I am doing is presenting my view as I see the EU, its bad points and good ones.
If anyone even finds anything I say remotely interesting that is a compliment but unless I was asked a direct question I would not presume to pressure or present myself as the all knowing book on the EU.
I find it annoying actually that you say this is not about you or JoeySteele, it is certainly not about me, I keep asking questions just as the undecided do.
So please, with respect for all, do not include me in your posts especially in the context you did above in your reply to the almost undecided poster.
I never mention you in my posts unless I respond to you directly.
I 100% do not agree with your analysis or presentation of the EU as you do so in your posts,only negative, no positives.
I see the attraction of trying again on our own after over 40 years but for me to ever vote for that, I would need to see the full 'new' costs and conditions that would be applied to us,across the board guaranteed, to vote for such a massive change.
Repeating myself again,
I have seen and heard nothing as to those guarantees from the out camp whatsoever.
Just repeating anti EU rhetoric gets nowhere at alland gives a false impression that all is bad as to the EU and not scrap of good about it.
Which ends up being totally misleading in my opinion.
You were right to say,this is not about JoeySteele however because I would never want it to be anything about me.
I post my views full stop.
My posts are there for anyone to read if they wish to,I am not going to direct them to any part of them.
With respect, you only made this thread Kirk, it is not your possession and on any issue like this both sides should be fairly presented, costed and the conditions of both ways known and detailed very clearly.
Just leave my name out of your responses to others however please, that is a little disrespectful to say the least to include mine the way you chose to in the post above.
So speak for yourself, not for me and don't try to infer this issue has anything to do with me, any more than it does as to anyone else who chooses to post in this thread.
I find the undecided and their views more interesting,it is a really big issue and a massive change to vote for if they vote out and sever over 40 years of closer ties to mainland Europe.
The decision is massive but whatever decisions any undecided come to I would respect and other than stating my own views and feelings, would never try to push anyone one way or the other either.
So you should not have put my name in your post above.
This is not a battle between you and I, there is in fact little point in me discussing this with you since all I say to you is wrong anyway,just as I will never accept your one sided totally negative presentation of the EU on a public forum.
So there will never be any agreement really between you and I on the issue as we are poles apart on it.
I have only responded this time again to you, because you used my name and wrongly in my view, in your response to another.
I do not like that at all.
My footnote to you is I as an IN person have pointed out the problems that can come from staying in too,I point to the fact, yes fact,that we have overcome many problems while in the EU,the UK has been successful and still is now in the EU.
So I can point clearly to a future not without difficulties and changes needed but to the fact, we would overcome problems when they arise and at times needing EU assistance too to do so.
You always choose to dismiss that but the last 40+ years speak for themselves in my view.
What no one is getting told, something you choose to ignore too, is the fact that no one in the out camp will not and probably cannot anyway, detail all the new costs, charges, tariffs,conditions and also difficulties we would have having to not only re-negotiate some trading deal with the EU again, accepting most of the conditions there are on us now already even in the new deals.
Also however just what deals will we certainly get with the other Nations and would they be that willing to really accommodate s cheaply when a good number of them want to have deals with the EU themselves anyway.
India for instance, the biggest Commonwealth Nation,would prefer the UK to say in the EU.
Canada has been battling to get its own deal with EU for years now.
How long would we take to get the 'right' deal and clearly what would that deal really be, what conditions imposed, what tariffs imposed.
Or are you trying to tell us there would be no charges, tariffs and conditions guaranteed.
When those questions are answered with solid assurances, as opposed to the solid assurances already in place for us now in the EU,then that would be a fairer portrayal of the issue..
In my opinion, nothing at all about it being about me, just my opinion like everyone elses views on here.
As to scaremongering that goes on as to all sides. The fact remains however we are in the EU, we have done pretty well out of it and there are benefits on both sides,not all is right with the EU,it likely never will be.
Then again all was not right before we joined anything as to Europe and we were desperate to do so too.
I would never throw away over 40 years of hard work unless I knew for certain that guarantees, cost and conditions were knows as to any alternative beforehand.
I would also be looking at what the UK govt could do now as to helping certain sections of business and groups of people while in the EU and yet they decide not to.
There would be no guarantees that would change or get better if we left.
There are good and bad scenarios as to in or out.
The difference is we know the bad and how to overcome it while being in the EU and working together so for me the benefits do still outweigh any drawbacks that there are still are admittedly.
However walking into a scenario of ifs, maybes, possibles and don't know yets,does nothing whatsoever to fill me with any confidence.
Yes there are possible good things in leaving, yes too equally there are possible bad things too,non really known or prepared for even..
Whereas for me as to in, there are certain bad things to come and certain good things to come from being a member,the bad things will be worked through as they have been for over 20 years or more now.
That, speaking for myself,no one else,gives me confidence for the better future for the UK being in because I know all that will happen.
Rather than taking on board biased negativity against the EU that lists not a thing that is positive as to it and takes us down a path virtually blindfold as to costs,tariffs and future conditions..
No scaremongering just balanced facts.