[the truth]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

We will have to continue to disagree on this,

However how can you with the same number of Doctors,cut nearly 20 hours off their working week and then make a service to cover more days a week with no change to the other staff needed to provide on the spot care.

They are cutting the hours but they will be expecting the Junior Doctors to work the same as before at least and even more, to fully cover a 7 day service but actually for less pay.

At present, a Junior Doctor after a full on duty,would ,if they were needed to remain on duty for longer be paid unsocial rates from 7pm.
This contract moves that to start after 10pm.
You cannot possibly do the 7 day week with the present number of Junior Doctors reduced to 72 hours,that will be their set hours but they will all be expected to work a great deal more hours than that, they already have to, to provide the week in week out service.
So how can they on less hours with the same number of Doctors be able to provide more days and hours of service,it simply doesn't make sense.
That is what makes this dangerous.

IF they were putting in more Doctors and nursing staff and radiologists and anaesthetists, then 7 days would not be such a pipedream.
However, by not putting in the radiologists and anaesthetists and other auxiliary staffing too,that will mean still a lesser service at weekends.
With Junior Doctors on duty but unable to provide any change as to care, other than the emergency set up in place now.

Get the extra radiologists, anaesthetists and auxiliary staff in place and over the next year or so get more Junior Doctors in place too, then maybe at that point, this contract will be less contentious.
AS it stands, it is full of holes and dangers and that is why Junior Doctors, and as I stated before, Consultants and Nursing staff too are all against it in the main and certainly against it being imposed.

Also this is not about money the truth,it is about hours and care, the reduction of hours from 91 to 72 also comes with an increased salary to in part compensate that, however it is the other measures that are the bone of contention.

The contract would be a pretty good one if it had all the other services and people needed in place with the many extra Junior Doctors that would be needed too.

Insisting on doing far more, for less and with the same or even less people, is ridiculous,get all in place, then properly plan a full 7 day service,only then would there be a good chance of it working properly and in a fully balanced way too.
Rather than this plan which will leave the Junior Doctors in this instance having to do much more,more hours, be more tired and likely for less overall too.

My Cousins dedicated their lives to medicine and helping people ill, money was never an issue.
When they tell me this contract would wear them out more, have them working far more hours and therefore it would be dangerous for the Patients in their care, I will take their word over this govt any day of the week.
Along with all their Junior Doctor colleagues too.

They never wanted to go on strike, or end up leaving their homes in England and go elsewhere, they have been forced to by this govts arrogance,because they 'know' being on the front line of care, that they will be restricted more as to giving real quality care to patients.
If this contract is at this time imposed on the English NHS Junior Doctors only.
Also certainly now,as the way things are at present within the NHS in England, no way could a full service over 7 days be provided with full competence.

This thread calls the Junior Doctors inhumane, that is shocking, they are people who have saved many thousands even of lives in their time as Doctors.
What however would be more likely to be inhumane is to impose this contract, which is a very badly planned one, badly prepared one and universally seen through those who work in the English NHS as a really dangerous one, for patients.

Now that their inhumane actions have been in effect deemed illegal....If they seriously want to improve matters they should turn their ire on the GP doctors contract 2004 which allowed over 90% of GP's to opt out of ALL out of hours work, thus putting enormous pressure on hospitals instead. These junior doctors in hospitals are usually limited in what they can do and often simply refer you back to your gp anyway. That is a farce, instead of playing punch and judy politics with we hate the tories , this step would be far more practical, logical and beneficial...end goal to tear up the 2004 gp contract
In the meantime hunt needs to clarify exactly what he intends to do with the rest of the staff needed to operate a 7 day nhs...are they all to go on contineental shift patterns too? hunt hasnt won , no one has won, forget egos, but now the junior doctors are snookered, it puts pressure back on hunt really to clarify his next steps and how he intends to achieve the goal of a top class 7 day nhs