[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Yes it can,if it is the law that it can be and that however is not the issue, the court case is about the right of MPs who all canvassed in a Nationwide referendum on the issue to be consulted and vote on the process of when to and also the leaving of the EU.

It is not at all about overturning the decision of the voters to leave it is only about when and how and who really oversees that.

It mystifies me why people who wanted full democracy and the authority of the UK parliament to be returned from the EU back to the UK parliament now fear so amazingly and aggressively any votes on it, whether that be public voting or even the elected MPs in Parliament as to it.

Parliament only sanctioned holding a referendum. not how the process should go or when following that referendum.


I will address jaxie now being very careful what I say, a general election is a good idea in my view,pleased you agree, for many reasons but that would test all the parties as to their plans for leaving and when to start it too.
A lot of in depth scrutiny from the likes of Andrew Neill, Marr and others would be very welcome in an election campaign.

However the voters could then decide what parties they trust more too with this, from hearing all the plans presented but more to the point vote for the leaving process the voters really want.
So it would also be a good test of where public opinion is on all the ways of leaving too and whoever got elected, would then have the clear mandate to carry out what was then voted for.

I think you may well find you could be disappointed at what may result however, the Conservatives would not get the biggest majority ever, even on the current polling with them about 14% ahead of Labour in the best polls for them, that would only get them an 80 to 90 overall majority.
Much better than the 12 they have now and for sure and certainly a strong mandate to go ahead solely with their plans.

No way however the biggest majority ever, not even to Tony Blair's overall majority in excess of 170 in 1997 and almost duplicated in 2001, and nowhere near the 200+ overall majority for the Conservatives in 1924.

The thing about general elections is they do usually bind minimum support for parties, while some voters regularly switch and float, there is a level certainly the 2 main parties will not likely go below.
I would put that at just over 25% for Labour in the worst of elections for them and more like 30% for the Conservatives in the worst likely election for them too.
That leaves little, in fact no room in this awful electoral system of first past the post, for any other party to really make any breakthrough.
With PR that would be a different matter altogether.
Also in general elections often odd things happen that turn the tide too, you may just get a shock at any result that comes about after a strongly scrutinised campaign.


Back to brillopad, who wasn't going to let it run smoothly, Theresa May was elected by some of her MPs to lead the party before the Autumn recess of parliament.
Once back in September, she could have held a vote right off to trigger article 50, she has an overall majority, she has the support of the DUP from Northern Ireland and also the one lone voice for UKIP in the Commons, Douglas Carswell.
That should have been an effective and easy majority to trigger article 50.

What did she do, she delayed the whole process right up to, for the present, the end of March next year, no one else, she did.
She has instigated the delay and allowed suspicion and frustration to build, no one else.
Why.

I will never grasp why anyone and it seems to be only some of those who voted leave now fear the democratic votes of voters or elected MPs when they screamed for same until they got this referendum.

However too, for the present very learned Judges after listening for weeks to submissions from both arguments have concluded in UK law, the elected parliament, not just govt, must have a vote on the process.
In UK law.
It seems now there are thoughts that this govt, should be able to act above the law and if people support that, that sets a very dangerous precedent indeed for the UK.

Now lets see if this appeal is overturned or upheld, if it is upheld,I wonder if all against this court action will then support Theresa May and the govt taking the issue on appeal then to the European court after that, which she and the govt would be in their rights to do so to try to get them to overturn the high court and Supreme court rulings..
What an irony that would be then however.

Yet all she had to do, and in fact still only needs to do, is simply hold a vote in Parliament for all elected MPs from all parties elected to have their say and sanction the process,just as they did to 'only' hold the referendum in the first place.
Avoiding all this bitterness,division and possible further delay.

Had I been PM, I know the route I would have preferred to take as to getting this process going, fairly quick votes with as much support and consensus I could have got from across the duly elected UK Parliament.

At the moment,were the govt to press on with leaving and triggering article 50, they would now be acting against UK law.
That could cause a massive constitutional crisis as well as actually being illegal.
Are you saying govts should be able to be above the law and no one should dare challenge them if they think they are.
Not a road I want to go down for my Country, no way.

If you want to believe all her rhetoric about it being about the how and when that is up to you, I certainly don't. If she could she would overturn it, failing that she hopes to water brexit down to the point it is unrecognisable as being what 52% of the voters voted for in a supposedly democratic election. She is only interested in her business interests.

It seems your learned judges aren't as learned as you think. Gerard Batten has produced some evidence that their ruling was invalid and , as such, likely to be overturned in December. Looks like we may never have legally been in the EU in the first place - real can of worms.

I suggest you watch his recent video on one of these threads before being so sure about what is and isn't legal. Battern is a Knowledgeable man who can wipe the floor with the likes of Miss Miller.