[QUOTE=kirklancaster;9063850]
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeysteele
While I can agree with most of what you say there, it is I think unfair the criticism you make of the person you are getting at again.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeysteele
NOTE: Though the distinctions are often extremely difficult to keep separate, I am referring in this response to OPINIONS and POSTS and NOT to members personally.
Kizzy is the one who 'criticised' and slurred 'Joe Public' in this post Joey, and because I am a member of 'Joe Public', I took offense at being so labelled, in such an overly simplistic and casually demeaning manner.
I am getting at no one. I am RESPONDING to posts which I do not agree with - ESPECIALLY posts such as this particular one, which ridiculously attempt to denigrate those members of the public who voted for Brexit - Not for the first time in posts by this poster either - and I am a member of the public who voted for Brexit.
"This was the problem in the USA election which must have turned off many voters there by the personal slurs on the other by each candidate.
Neither gained any moral high ground there."
The above is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT in this context Joey, because I have not cast any 'Personal Slurs' against anyone, but taken into consideration with your GROUNDLESS accusation above that I am 'getting at' this poster 'again', you are beginning to appear to be disingenuously and unfairly attempting to persuade the reader that I am 'victimising' someone, and this is unforgivable.
I am merely RESPONDING to a post which I do not agree with.
"Her views areas relevant as anyone elses and just because they are at odds with yours does not make them ill informed or erroneous."
In stating the above, you are TOTALLY wrong.
In MY personal opinion, based upon MY intellect, MY knowledge, and My intuition, 'Her views are both ill informed AND erroneous and THEREFORE they are most certainly NOT relevant to me.
HOW can they be?
Do you REALLY pay CREDENCE to views and statements which with EVERY FIBRE of your being you DEEM to be WRONG?
If I said that "in my opinion the Klu Klux Klan were all nice people who were just misunderstood" - Are you REALLY gong to try to tell me that you would say that my view is as relevant as some other member who declared them to be "sick evil, racist lunatics"?
No, I would hope, that based upon YOUR intellect, YOUR knowledge, and YOUR intuition, you would say that my view of the KKK is 'ill informed and totally erroneous'
"However how the EU gets in here is a little mystifying... "
The post is about Brexit and you are 'mystified as to How the Eu gets in here' Joey?
"...but Kirk, we are all Joe Public, not just you and those you know personally.
Also the other Joe Publics equally will have people they know well, are acquaintances or who they just know of such as you list as who voted leave, who also voted remain.
You haven't a monopoly on those groups, just as no one else has who is Joe public."
None of the above is relevant at all Joey, because I do not concern myself with anyone else outside of 'my group' because I do not know them or their political leanings, nor whether they voted Brexit or not, so I would not even consider trying to speak o their behalf - Why would I??
I am concerned only with rebutting a totally ludicrous statement which demeans me personally - and those members of 'Joe Public' who I DO KNOW who also voted Brexit, and I use them to support my rebuttal that not all 'Joe Public' are as clueless as the poster insinuates in her post.
"The people who voted remain, also know what they voting foe, Joe public and all the groups who did so that you list."
The above is a redundant statement Joey, because NOWHERE do I say that those voting Remain do not know what they are voting for.
"I do have to say, I asked many questions on here just as to what leaving meant and no leave voter told me anything concrete.
The only answer I got was they didn't want the EU making our laws."
Again, the above is totally irrelevant to the context here Joey of whether 'Joe Public' is clueless or not.
"Remain voters in my view voted for the status quo,knowing how all was and would not liekly change.
Leave voters probably voted for different reasons, some just for change, some for making our own laws, some immigration, some as to the single market and some for all of those things probably too.
Not all however.
So,I wanted to try to heed what others were saying opposite to me but I got nothing concrete at all,that could persuade me that the UK would do better out of the EU.
If I could have believed that, I would have thought about my vote more.
I listened to what you and most said,( when they were not personally insulting about it).
I was one who also realised remain was not going to win and in fact kept telling you that leave would get a result.
Anyway, all the people and groups you list that you know who voted to leave is fine but that is not the only story.
Those who voted remain probably the majority of them too have the same sets of people and professions they know, and know of as well who also voted as they did,remain too.
We are all Joe public however, not just you and those you know who think like you do.
Just as I am Joe public and those I know are not the only Joe public either."
I have nort disputed any of the above Joey, but, sorry, once again, NONE of it is relevant to my post or the post which my post was a response to.
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All members posts are relevant Kirk unless they insult another member.
Not just yours, mine or anyone elses.
I said how had brexit got on here because this is a Hillary Clinton thread.
A perfectly relevant question.
As to the point and raising the KKK, for goodness sake, you cannot be deemed fully accurate at all in what you say people who voted leave actually were voting for.
All they voted for was to leave as members of the EU nothing more was on that ballot paper.
Many issues revolve around that and they were not asked about those sets of individual issues.
Of course anyone could say the KKK is a bad organisation, we know that for sure from all their activities, you however just as I do not either, cannot say with full confidence that everyone who voted leave from Joe public, voted for one issue, several or a whole host of them.or that many just voted for change.
You cannot speak for all who voted leave,not at all.
So no points are irrelevant from others as you try to make out and none are erroneous or ill informed.
Also it is totally relevant to have included the USA election in that post as this is related to Hillary Clinton and that election anyway as a thread.
I said the getting at people likely turned off voters and the example then on here as getting at someone just because of an opposing view, is also a turn off to real and reasoned debate.
Your reference to the other member described their posts,all their posts not just one, '
all posts' from politics to foreign affairs and the EU, were ill informed and erroneous.
Showing a woeful lack of understanding on the issues by that member'.
Your words.
That is hardly showing any respect to that member at all who actually never mentioned you anyway in theirs.
Leave has not the monopoly on right as to the way to leave, only that we should leave as members of the EU.
All of Joe public have to live in the UK not just the leave voters.
There are going to be many roads and ways and separate issues as to leaving, you have not the right one, I have not the right one, and in fact it seems 'no one' has any idea at present what the right one is anyway.