Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier
I do understand what you're saying Maru, I really do, but it's where I have to come back to the gist of one of my very first posts; that there are TWO options... the first, and honestly, my preferred option being allow people to say what they want but allow others the right to respond with their opinions. Their true opinions - about that person - for saying the things they are saying. In my opinion, this is essential to maintaining the sort of equilibrium you're talking about; people naturally moderate their own words when they know they can be personally called out on them. If they feel like they can go all out without fear of anyone being able to say anything to them, directly, in return... then that is exactly what they will do.
If that's not possible, then there needs to be some sort of restriction on how far people are allowed to go with what they are saying.
The current situation on TiBB is not the former or the latter, and obviously this is taken to extremes and I'm not comparing anyone here to the KKK, but;
To use your examples...
It's like the KKK having the right to say whatever they want and share whatever views they want, then someone saying "Mr KKK, these views are racist. You are a racist."... and that person then being arrested for calling the KKK member a racist.
It comes down to this: "full free speech if you're speaking in general, or about a non-forum person, but absolutely ZERO free speech when it comes to talking about forum members." You flat out can't. At all. It's a lopsided system that, I will say again, is going to spiral further out of control in terms of the sorts of opinions that are being posted.
I suppose to go back to real-world allegories you could suggest that this is much like freedom of speech vs. defamation... but then, it's not defamation if the comments about an individual are opinions based on facts and in the "public interest". The ability to point out racism and other prejudice in specific members is arguably both.
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I agree with you in general, I wish for the first option. I think that is more plausible when the community has a good consensus of where the actual
real line is... like yeah
this does not belong here on "our" site... doesn't seem feasible from what little I've read in SD recently.
But with SD and the state of affairs of our politics, it's forcing again--places like this to push their policies to the limit. The problem, people will associate the actions of the moderators at large as "taking sides". Somehow they are
personally negligent. Whether it's the truth or not, doesn't matter, it's the appearance... it happened before I stopped posting. Remember the members who claimed they were personally being targetted... now we're seeing the opposite side of the table... worst part, the quality of SD posts (again, what little I've read)... seems to be about the same as when I quit posting, so what was really the point? So yeah, not much improvement there... I don't think there's much the moderators can do at this point... the best thing to do would honestly be to ignore these posters if they're being this oppressive with their views. I actually made a little WebExtensions plugin not too long before I stopped posting that let me collapse quotes (and quotes that referenced my little baddies) from the annoying posters and other things... partially for fun so I could give people funny names, but yeah... but yeah it's just better to grow a thicker skin... this is the world we are living in now. But truthfully, you're about where I was before I quit posting... I don't like to try to push my views on others or control their views (I'm boring I know)... but it's just because it's banging your head in a wall. It's not accomplishing much but playing into the dumb rat race that the stereotypes on this board are constantly reinforcing.
But yeah I feel you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTM45
No threat ?
I'm not so sure the people they lynched or dragged to their deaths behind pickups or the civil rights workers they murdered would agree with you on that one.  |
lmao. You make a great point. I'm mainly looking backwards when many of these movements are more "dormant". Back then, I think hate groups were closer to gangs... yes, they were there. But you didn't talk about them every five minutes, nor did you pay them any mind... yes, they commit crimes, because they have to prove loyalty to each other and their "values", and all that mess... but in the end, most people--unless you were unlucky to live in the wrong place (or state) or just happen to be in the wrong place or wrong time, you didn't feel like you were preyed upon. And because they made it relatively obvious where they hung out, where their "community" was... you knew these groups were territorial and to stay out of their perimeter. Now, these things live underneath every rock, nook and cranny... it's because harder to detect because now the kids and social media are involving people from all walks of life, some people who don't know they're being encouraged to have strong words with the opposition group in order to bolster some lesser than honorable intentions towards our own society (edit)... Now it's a resurgence and is a very serious thing, they are pushing their rhetoric and narrative, accompanying this with violence... very similar to terrorism... personally I see no difference in the way they operate.
I do not condone racism, and I make that clear when it is the topic in a thread... but they pigeon hole oppositional groups to get them to act out, because that creates an air of competition... there are kids who are buying into this rhetoric and signing up for this sh*t. The other day, I was standing outside talking to an African American police officer (and I'm caucasian fyi), and some kids in their car drove by screaming "Black Power!..." It didn't shock me or anything (it's whatever)... it's just I know the area I'm in, there are gangs because we are near the city.. and I'm sad that this is how kids are spending their time and mental energy. But they're being told they're doing something good for their group and the people who are actually looking out for them... gangs have always operate this way, sure, but it's the more psychotic versions of these groups that are getting the national intents... and those are the people we don't want to use our own words against us. We have to take back the power of our words and make sure too that our actions best describe this. We have to do what we say... not just say what we intend to do. That includes, listening to these groups--whether we agree with or them or not, and figure out what we are doing wrong (as a society) to not address these needs... why are they turning to hate groups and gangs to protect their communities? Why can't they trust the police to do this? What are we doing wrong that we should be doing better? (This isn't to start that debate, just saying where I approach things in general).
It's a sad state of affairs... all around, but we all are living together--all scared for the future, maybe for different reasons... but we are all operating out of fear or otherwise in avoidance of it (to some degree) about how we approach the future... we're all in that boat together
