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Originally Posted by Jamie89
I've been reading a lot more recently both sides of the transgender/feminism debate because in all honesty I've never really seen them as being that connected, but seeing the strong opinions in here they obviously are, but what I don't really get is, what is it that is being taken away from women by allowing a transwoman to be considered a woman? I understand the arguments that they won't have experienced sexism and womens issues to the extent of women who were born female, but what actual rights are being taken away from women by including transwomen in that? That's something I can't find an answer to.
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Generally the problem feminists have with it is the loss of women only spaces. Such as loos, prisons, sport, etc. Stuff that was fought for for hundreds of years.
Men lose their male spaces too. But it does not seem that there are loads of transmen lining up wanting into male areas. So it doesn't really affect men to the same extent at the moment.
The main problem I have with it all is the loss of sex segregation tbh. As I see segregation as very much needed (in certain areas anyway). If I wasn't expected to parrot the lie that you actually can change sex and if men weren't trying to force their way into female areas, I wouldn't have an issue with it at all. Of course there is an added problem of anytime anyone says anything besides 'biology is totally irrelevant and is a social construct' they are hit with rape and death threats too (I have had 3 this week so far, people keep trying to show me how 'womanly' they are by threatening me with their girlcock. Hmm), which doesn't help tensions at all. I also think its important that language continue to actually make sense, so including male people in the meaning of 'woman' is a bit daft. Hence 'transwoman'. Not the same as women, and ridiculous to claim they are the same. I know people mean well when they say 'transwomen are women' and such, but at least think a little bit about what you are saying. Woman has a meaning, if woman includes men, then woman suddenly means 'person' instead, and we already have a word for person
I also think gender identity is such a load of crap. Maybe my opinion is clouded on that because I personally do not have one and am not religious so don't believe in some mysterious inner essence or whatever. But everyone should be able to dress however the hell they like..but I won't pretend that someone putting on a dress makes them an actual woman
I think thats just lazy stereotyping. And besides stereotypes, I don't see what 'trans' is at all. I used to think it was people who had sex dysphoria and felt they did not fit in their bodies, similar to BDD. But 'born in the wrong body' is transphopbic these days. thus I cannot understand what makes modern day transwomen (as opposed to transsexuals) any different from any other man...except for what they want to wear :S
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Originally Posted by Jamie89
Anyway, if gender identity is real (which I believe it is, it just doesn't manifest the way it does for transgender people in the same way it does everyone else, or at all in most people) then is it really so bad for them to want the rest of society to regard them in the way they identify? Is that imposing an ideology or isn't it just natural, we all want people to view us as the person we feel that we are? Most of us just don't have to even think about that because it happens naturally. And is their inclusion within the group that they identify with really taking anything away from the people currently in that group? That's something I'm really keen to understand. I don't personally feel that a transman takes anything away from me being a man but I appreciate it's probably different for women because of feminism which is why I'm asking.
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Well that depends entirely on if you believe male and female are real distinct categories, and if sex segregation is needed doesn't it..
I went into what rights are being taken away above. There is not that much of a clash with 'trans rights' and 'womens rights', but the areas they do clash, its very important and the activists are just getting more and more violent in trying to silence any woman ( real or trans, transsexuals are being silenced also in the name of 'transgender') who speaks up.