[Jack_]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Awesome post.
Where have you been Jack_

This for me the post of the series.

Thanks Joey! I've been a bit behind on the series - had to catch up on about ten episodes this week, still not fully back into the swing of on-season yet (and it's nearly over!). Life's been busy

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

So it seems she is not the most hated, or she is the most boring but she is one of the most POPULAR persons in there at the moment, whether you like it or not.
Even with her views, even with her track record and even at her age.

Think on.

Once again another member of TiBB who doesn't properly read posts before they respond to them.

Literally, from the FIRST LINE OF MY POST:

Originally Posted by Jack_

Ann's a great housemate and tbh I may even want her to win, but the woman really is pathetic and a disgrace

Where did I say I found her boring? Or that I disliked the fact she's popular?

READ POSTS BEFORE YOU RESPOND TO THEM

Now, on to the rest...

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

I have to disagree Jack

If you need to discuss something with an older person, it is not hard to put it in a polite manner to them. If they agree or disagree, discuss in a manner which is not patronizing towards them either. They will not take umbrage with this, what is so hard in not using profanities every other word unless your vocabulary is limited. Being young is no excuse either, everyone knows what is right or wrong.

You're literally patronising older people in this very paragraph? 'If you need to discuss something with an older person' ... 'they will not take umbrage with this'? With all due respect, people over the age of 70 aren't a bunch of delicate little flowers that need you to speak for them and tell them what they will and will not like - as if you know every older person on planet earth. And yes, I realise I may be saying this to someone this age (I don't know either way) but the point will still stand even if you are.

Anyway...I don't remember an occasion where a housemate has had a debate with Ann and hasn't been polite? Or one where they've patronised her? I seem to remember all of the debates and discussions with her (and others) being conducted in a rather civilised manner actually, and rightfully so. I'm a bit unsure as to what you're supposed to be referencing? My post was about Ann's nomination of Andrew - which, by the way - he didn't patronise or be impolite towards her at all during.

I'm afraid there's no such thing as 'right or wrong' either. The world isn't black and white. You may not like profanities, others may not mind them, others may love them - variety is the spice of life. There is no inherent natural law or Book of Life that says they must not be used in conversation, that is just something that you and some others believe which is of course fine but it doesn't make it a matter of 'right or wrong'.

The point at the end of my post was that in putting older people on a pedestal where they must be protected and respected at all costs - is in actual fact an example of ageism, against older people. It's patronising. In much the same way, if someone suggested a woman shouldn't ever pay a bill, or that women are a vulnerable homogenous group that must be protected by big strong men and that they aren't capable of doing certain things - that would be sexist. It doesn't matter if the intent is honourable, if you are Othering someone and making out that they aren't capable of defending themselves, it's pretty damn patronising. Especially when many of them are. Many women, many old people, many disabled people.

Just because someone is seventy is doesn't mean they aren't immune from being insulted, or insulting someone themselves. They are still human.

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

People respond to how they are treated, all ages the same. Why you felt the need to call Ann ****ing Widdicombe when she has never sworn at anyone in the house or felt the need to because she can quite easily get her point across without using profanities, is not her problem but the person who is using it.

The first line is correct, in fact this response to you is an exact example of that. I'm a firm believer of that mentality actually. But, again, I don't see what relevance this has to the purpose of my post which was about Andrew's reaction to Ann's nomination of him and the rest of the housemates' tendency to bend over backwards for her.

I called her 'Ann ****ing Widdecombe' in the context of a sentence where I was explaining how she isn't a walkover, and that she would have been more than capable of defending herself had Andrew insulted her to her face. The use of the f word was for effect, because it's ANN WIDDECOMBE. Her entire career shouldn't lend anyone to the notion that she is a frail old woman that couldn't hold her own, the very idea is laughable - hence why I emphasised her name. I'd have thought that would've been self-explanatory.

I don't have a problem. I wasn't swearing at Ann. Again, not sure what you're on about.

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

I am sick to the back teeth of all this homophobic nonsense being aimed at anyone who doesn't toe the Gay Cause line. I couldn't care less who sleeps with who, Gay, straight, men, women, whatever, whoever and their dog. What I do not want to see is blatant exhibitioning in front of the cameras for airtime between two people who only want to be famous and will only be famous for five minutes.

I am sure Ann didn't want to see it either and she is allowed to say so. Just the same as she removes herself from the room so others can enjoy themselves late at night. She did remove herself from the room every evening, so how is that her censoring others.

The Gay Cause line sounds good, how much a minute do they charge?

Now you see this is where I and a lot of others differ, I don't tend to believe that people in showmances - or even people who are friends on Big Brother - are playing up to the cameras deliberately. I'm not a cynic, I take things at face value, some showmances are entertaining, others are beyond dull (like Ashley and Ginuwine's) but that doesn't mean I don't believe them. I think it's perfectly possible to develop feelings for someone in an environment like that in a short space of time, so I don't tend to buy into the whole 'they're faking it' crap.

As for Andrew and Shane...is it really beyond the realms of possibility that they were just...erm...you know, having fun? People play fight sometimes. Two of my ex housemates used to, I know another two people that literally start punching each other as a greeting most times they see one another. I can imagine that in the Big Brother house, time passes very slowly and the downtime can get pretty boring - so play fighting (which is what they were doing, not some weird homoerotic sex act that Ann thinks Andrew's mum and nan will be ashamed of) seems an inevitability to me. What really is the problem?

Ann is allowed to say she doesn't like it. I didn't say she wasn't. In fact, AGAIN, I actually said the opposite

Originally Posted by Jack_

Yes, she has every right to her opinion and I completely respect the fact that she is from a different generation that has a lower tolerance level for certain behaviour.

She does remove herself from the room, yes, and so she should. She's even allowed to nominate Andrew for it if she sees fit.

The actual issue here - the one I raised in my post - and the one that annoyed Andrew (of which I agree with), is her insinuating that his mother and grandmother wouldn't want to see him play fighting with another man/would be ashamed of it/wouldn't be proud of him for it. Once again, it wasn't a homoerotic sex act or public display of affection, it was play fighting. Now why would anyone's family be ashamed of their male relative for play fighting with another man? What an absurd and offensive notion, and he had every right to be annoyed by it - hence why I'm not surprised he spoke about her in the way he did. If someone had brought my family into it, I'd have said the same if not worse.

My confusion is also with the rest of the housemates pandering her sensitivities, and we all know this is the case because several of them have spoke about them feeling like they have to censor themselves around her. Her presence or dare I say intimidating nature is obviously strong because the same effect doesn't seem to happen around Amanda or Wayne. Again, it's perfectly fine for Ann to not like some of the conversations or behaviour, but if she doesn't like it she should remove herself from the room (as she sometimes does), the housemates shouldn't feel like they need to modify their behaviour. It's the Big Brother house, not the House of Commons.

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

If the general public agreed with Andrew, he would still be there but he was booted out first. They have kept Ann in every time she was nominated against India, Maggie and she had the most votes.

The public vote on BBUK is a barometer of nothing. Not of who's a good housemate, and certainly not of who's right and who's wrong.

Think on yourself.