[Creggle]

First and foremost I am an Ashleigh fan, and no matter who else wins I'll be disappointed. Though until recently I'd of been actually pissed off if anyone but Ash or Ashleigh won, but I'm coming around to Helen. If her 'change' has been a gameplan, or even worse a artificial storyline like something from TOWIE () then I'm an idiot, but if she's genuine and the way she's been recently is a legitimate 'journey' and she's starting to slowly change who she is because of BB, then she can join Ash as a worthy winner or a brilliant runner up. She's just been really likeable this week. Coming up to Ashleigh and completely burying the hatchet seems genuine as Helen doesn't act like a gameplayer at all as she does wears her heart on her sleeve.

I know there is a lot of ifs and buts there, but I'd be gobsmacked if she completely changed her life around from BB win or lose, and I'm hoping she does that. It's not nice seeing somebody like Helen as I've always just felt sorry for her, being that much of an arse (week1-5) is just a miserable existance. I hope she can walk away from this show a changed woman, or start on the path of becoming one, and most importantly I hope she makes it into the top 3 at least.

[MB.]

I'd still mind, but I'm warming to the idea of her coming third. Don't expect any more niceness than that out of me

[Creggle]

Originally Posted by MB&U

I'd still mind, but I'm warming to the idea of her coming third. Don't expect any more niceness than that out of me

Haha I see where you're coming from. For me perfect top 3 would be 3. Helen 2. Ash 1. Ashleigh, but like you said 'warming'... I'm warming up to the idea of those 3 being top 3 but the order is starting to not be particularly important.

[jet]

Helen sat in the secret room one day before she makes up with Ashleigh and made snide faces and played an imaginary violin when Ashleigh was talking about being bullied at school.

When she was asked the question from the ex HM's on the very day she makes up with Ashleigh about who she would apologize to she said just Zoe and anyone she disliked she didn't owe an apology to and they could get stuffed.

On the very day she makes up with Ashleigh the ex HM's come into the house - most of her old clique, including Steven who hates Ashleigh and Chris, no doubt imparting his usual words of wisdom in Helen's ear. Fortified with alcohol, she makes up with Ashleigh.

I'm not buying it. And my memory isn't short. 'Nice' (which is very debatable) for a few days doesn't wipe out 10 weeks of aggression, nastiness and the bad atmosphere she put the other HM's through for most of their experience.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

Helen sat in the secret room one day before she makes up with Ashleigh and made snide faces and played an imaginary violin when Ashleigh was talking about being bullied at school.

When she was asked the question from the ex HM's on the very day she makes up with Ashleigh about who she would apologize to she said just Zoe and anyone she disliked she didn't owe an apology to and they could get stuffed.

On the very day she makes up with Ashleigh the ex HM's come into the house - most of her old clique, including Steven who hated Ashleigh and Chris, no doubt imparting his usual words of wisdom in Helen's ear. Fortified with alcohol, she makes up with Ashleigh.

I'm not buying it. And my memory isn't short. 'Nice' (which is debatable) for a few days doesn't wipe out 10 weeks of aggression, nastiness and the bad atmosphere she put the other HM's through for most of their experience.

Yeah, just the day before Ashleigh was slagging Helen off too. Yet she too but an end to it and apologised to Helen and put it behind them.

They've given it a rest, why can't you lot?

[Creggle]

Originally Posted by jet

Helen sat in the secret room one day before she makes up with Ashleigh and made snide faces and played an imaginary violin when Ashleigh was talking about being bullied at school.

Ashleigh was bitching about her alot, and the violin moment (from the edits at least) came after she witnessed the bitching, I think alot of people in Helen's shoes would of been annoyed enough to do these sort of things. Doesn't make them right, but it doesn't really condemn her.

Originally Posted by jet

When she was asked the question from the ex HM's on the very day she makes up with Ashleigh about who she would apologize to she said just Zoe and anyone she disliked she didn't owe an apology to and they could get stuffed.

This was the first part of the task, so could of been quite early in the day, that leaves many hours for Helen to have a good think.

Originally Posted by jet

On the very day she makes up with Ashleigh the ex HM's come into the house - most of her old clique, including Steven who hates Ashleigh and Chris, no doubt imparting his usual words of wisdom in Helen's ear. Fortified with alcohol, she makes up with Ashleigh.

This is a brilliant point, her 'clique' could of easily told her the situation on the outside, told her Ashleigh is massive favorite to win and that her aggression is killing her chances, which would of spurred Helen to do what she did. But from what I remember, Helen and Ashleigh sorted their differences out in the bedroom... when it was bright, the ex housemates went in for the party... it was dark. That sort of counters your point.

Originally Posted by jet

I'm not buying it. And my memory isn't short. 'Nice' (which is very debatable) for a few days doesn't wipe out 10 weeks of aggression, nastiness and the bad atmosphere she put the other HM's through for most of their experience.

This would just make her quote on quote 'turn around' even better, but also makes it seem as though she's changing herself simply for the finals. Mixed feelings.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Yeah, just the day before Ashleigh was slagging Helen off too. Yet she too but an end to it and apologised to Helen and put it behind them.

They've given it a rest, why can't you lot?

They both slagged each other off, the difference is Ashleigh never had the advantage of the producers letting her hear Helen doing it. Helen had that advantage twice.

Ashleigh was very gracious in accepting her fake? apology - she had a lot to apologize for. Pity she didn't apologize to the other HM's as well for making their experience less than it should have been. She owes Christopher and Chris one as well for how she treated them.
But it was far more effective and crowd pleasing to just concentrate on Ashleigh...

[Marsh.]

So Helen's apology is fake but Ashleigh's was genuine?

Ok then.

[Sam:)]

Being honest I wouldn't care who won as long as its not Pav or Ash.

[jet]

Helen and Ashleigh sorted their differences out in the bedroom... when it was bright, the ex housemates went in for the party... it was dark. That sort of counters your point.

The bedroom 'truce' scene was after Steven and Winston had been doing the 'product promotion' task with the HM's. - Steven could well have said something then...and the 'make up' was at the party when Steven could have advised her further.

Helen didn't change all on her own in one afternoon from 'stuff them' to 'lovely' apologetic lady. It's just not her.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

They both slagged each other off, the difference is Ashleigh never had the advantage of the producers letting her hear Helen doing it. Helen had that advantage twice.

Which isn't Helen's fault. The fact you keep saying it as if it is, is just laughable.

[JTM45]

I'd be gutted if she won because it would mean a lot of people were duped by BB's scheming!
It's so obvious that turning round the perception of Helen by keeping her in there has been the aim from day one and if she was to win (which ISN'T going to happen!) it would be a terrible reflection on the British public!

[jet]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Which isn't Helen's fault. The fact you keep saying it as if it is, is just laughable.

I said the producers gave her the advantage and gave Ashleigh none. Why?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

I said the producers gave her the advantage and gave Ashleigh none. Why?

Ask them?

You used it in a long post that was anti-Helen, her being put in a room (Chris was too but you conveniently left that out) is not her fault nor has it had any effect on Ashleigh as they both didn't let the manipulation get to them and sorted out their differences.

They're over it, you're not.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JTM45

I'd be gutted if she won because it would mean a lot of people were duped by BB's scheming!
It's so obvious that turning round the perception of Helen by keeping her in there has been the aim from day one and if she was to win (which ISN'T going to happen!) it would be a terrible reflection on the British public!

From day 1? Because they're psychic and knew how all of the housemates would behave in the house? They could see Pauline would be chosen as PH? They could see that Pauline would choose Helen to get the pass?

Wow, those producers are more powerful than I thought.

[jet]

Originally Posted by JTM45

I'd be gutted if she won because it would mean a lot of people were duped by BB's scheming!
It's so obvious that turning round the perception of Helen by keeping her in there has been the aim from day one and if she was to win (which ISN'T going to happen!) it would be a terrible reflection on the British public!

It would indeed. A horrendous endorsement of aggression, nastiness, bullying and loud mouthed idiocy. But seeing the likes of Geordie Shore, Towie and its ilk is popular, maybe that type of viewer makes up the majority of BB watchers nowadays? The discerning viewers are decreasing, I would say, though going by here at Tibb there are still quite a few of us about...

We'll see tomorrow night what the viewers want....

[Marsh.]

The British Public? Or a couple of thousand that vote? Not all of whom vote based on "nicest person".

[Colbert-Bump]

Helen is a great housemate, glad she's in the final.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Ask them?

You used it in a long post that was anti-Helen, her being put in a room (Chris was too but you conveniently left that out) is not her fault nor has it had any effect on Ashleigh as they both didn't let the manipulation get to them and sorted out their differences.

They're over it, you're not.

The producers didn't put Chris in there - Ash and Christopher did. And he didn't even want to listen. Unlike Helen, who listened in avidly whenever Ashleigh was onscreen and found it 'boring' when she wasn't.

I'm not over it because I don't buy that Helen, who was a nasty cow in varying degrees for 10 weeks, suddenly changed her tune in a matter of hours the very day her cronies came into the house with their outside information.

I'm not that naive, and you are certainly not either.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

The producers didn't put Chris in there - Ash and Christopher did. And he didn't even want to listen. Unlike Helen, who listened in avidly whenever Ashleigh was onscreen and found it 'boring' when she wasn't.

I'm not over it because I don't buy that Helen, who was a nasty cow in varying degrees for 10 weeks, suddenly changed her tune in a matter of hours the very day her cronies came into the house with their outside information.

I'm not that naive, and you are certainly not either.

She didn't change her tune. It was obvious they were in a never ending cycle of bitching about one another.

As already stated, they were working through their differences BEFORE the ex housemates entered the house.

They will never be best friends, but they've faced head on the fact they've not liked each other all series and buried the hatchet instead of continuing the circle.

It doesn't mean either has had an "epiphany" it means both have decided to end it.

[jet]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

She didn't change her tune. It was obvious they were in a never ending cycle of bitching about one another.

As already stated, they were working through their differences BEFORE the ex housemates entered the house.

They will never be best friends, but they've faced head on the fact they've not liked each other all series and buried the hatchet instead of continuing the circle.

It doesn't mean either has had an "epiphany" it means both have decided to end it.

No they were not. The 'truce' in the bedroom happened after Steven and Winston had already been in the house coaching them on the product promotion...I've already said that....
The apology came after the HM's had been in for the party.

[JTM45]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

From day 1? Because they're psychic and knew how all of the housemates would behave in the house? They could see Pauline would be chosen as PH? They could see that Pauline would choose Helen to get the pass?

Wow, those producers are more powerful than I thought.

It was pretty obvious Pauline would be chosen as PH (being the oldest and going in there with the motherly attitude that she had before she became PH) and it was so very obvious that Pauline was told to choose Helen to get the pass!

You'd have to be blind not to see that!!! The Pass was invented for Helen and nobody else was ever in with a chance of getting it.

Pauline is an Actor/Singer so it's highly likely that she was employed to do exactly what she did.

[jet]

It is extremely suspicious that the ONE person who was really aggressive and bound to cause controversy and be out on her ass in a week or two was the one who got the free pass...it's all about viewing figures, right?
BB C5 wouldn't do that, would they? Not THIS year, surely?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JTM45

It was pretty obvious Pauline would be chosen as PH (being the oldest and going in there with the motherly attitude that she had before she became PH) and it was so very obvious that Pauline was told to choose Helen to get the pass!

You'd have to be blind not to see that!!! The Pass was invented for Helen and nobody else was ever in with a chance of getting it.

Pauline is an Actor/Singer so it's highly likely that she was employed to do exactly what she did.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by jet

No they were not. The 'truce' in the bedroom happened after Steven and Winston had already been in the house coaching them on the product promotion...I've already said that....
The apology came after the HM's had been in for the party.

Really? As it was daylight during the bedroom scene and dark when the ex housemates entered.