[Ammi]

The Government has been accused of “chilling callousness” over a tough new benefit cap that could lead some families to lose more than £100 a week.
From Monday. the annual limit on welfare payments to unemployed households will drop from £26,000 to £23,000 in London and £20,000 outside the capital.
The move was announced by George Osborne last year and has been described as a "monstrous" assault on struggling families that will shatter the life chances of the poorest children.
Around 20,000 families are currently capped by an annual limit of £26,000 (or £500 a week) on total household benefits, introduced in 2013. But the new lower caps are set to bring an explosion in the numbers affected to around 64,000 households.
Nearly two thirds of those affected are single mothers, according to the general union GMB.
For single people without children the cap will fall at £15,410 in Greater London and £13,400 across the rest of the UK.
According to the Department*for Work and Pensions, the 23,500 households who previously had their benefits capped have moved into work since 2013.
But analysis by the Institute for Fiscal Studies suggests that "the majority of those affected will not respond" to the tougher cap by moving into work or moving house.
"For that majority it is an open question how they will adjust to the loss of income," it said in a report.
The Liberal Democrats argue the new cap will “rob the poorest families of £6,000 a year” and claim Prime Minister Theresa May has abandoned her promise to help the poor, following her vow in her Conservative conference speech last month to “make society fairer for families”.
Leader Tim Farron said: "Theresa May said one thing on the steps of Downing Street and is now robbing some of the poorest families of £6,000 a year. She just misled the British public and is now clobbering those who can least afford it. It makes her party look like hypocrites.
"Attempts by the Conservatives to somehow re-brand themselves as the workers' party are now looking absurd. This is disgraceful."
GMB National Secretary Rehana Azam said: "Just four months ago, Theresa May stood on the steps of Downing Street promising to fight injustice and to ensure every person regardless of their background would be given the chance to be all they want to be. Today she is unleashing a monstrous new assault on 40,000 single mothers, which risks shattering the life chances of children up and down our country.
"This has echoes of the staggering hypocrisy and chilling callousness that saw the victimisation of single mothers in the bad old days of the early 1990s. Theresa May once said she would change the 'nasty party' but the mask has slipped again."
The move comes amid warnings that the poorest half of households face flat or falling incomes over the course of the Parliament.
Lower wage growth and higher inflation could reduce typical earnings by around £1,000 a year by 2020, the Resolution Foundation warned and has called on Philip Hammond to use the Autumn*Statement to reverse the "damaging cuts" to work welfare allowances.
"With the uncertainty of Brexit, there could be fewer well paid, secure jobs to go round - not to mention problems of access to nurseries with closures and cuts to public services,” Ms Azam said.
“All the while food prices are going up - and the evidence shows that single parents were already skipping meals to provide for their children, even before this latest attack."
Work and Pensions Secretary Damian Green said: "Each statistic represents a person who has moved into employment and can now enjoy the security and dignity that works brings.
"By making sure that those people who are out of work are faced with the same choices as those who are in work, the benefit cap has been a real success.
"By lowering the cap today, we are ensuring the values of this Government continue to chime with those of ordinary working people and delivering on our commitment to make sure work pays more than welfare."


http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews...cid=spartandhp

[Kizzy]

Yup cull on target.... Evil warmongering bastards!

[Ammi]

.....I shouldn't laugh I know but it's not even 7am yet, you hit the ground running there Kizzy...(I'm not laughing at the content of your post as such or the topic...)....

[Kizzy]

Just finished work Ammi, like to check in before I hit the hay

[Ammi]

...awww you on a nightshift atm...keeping Arista on his toes in keeping up 24/7 with world events live as they happen....

[arista]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...awww you on a nightshift atm...keeping Arista on his toes in keeping up 24/7 with world events live as they happen....

Ammi I have Power Solid Nap (PSN)
set at 2 hours max.
alerts on Screens ready

24/7 is Good



Feel the Force

[Northern Monkey]

This is why i've never and never will vote Tory.

[Crimson Dynamo]

"that could lead some families to lose more than £100 a week."

or could not

"The move was announced by George Osborne last year and has been described as a "monstrous" assault on struggling families that will shatter the life chances of the poorest children"

By who?

"But analysis by the Institute for Fiscal Studies suggests that "the majority of those affected will not respond" to the tougher cap by moving into work or moving house.
"For that majority it is an open question how they will adjust to the loss of income," it said in a report.
"

why wont they?

"Lower wage growth and higher inflation could reduce typical earnings by around £1,000 a year by 2020"

or could not

"With the uncertainty of Brexit, there could be fewer well paid, secure jobs to go round"

or they could be more

"and the evidence shows that single parents were already skipping meals to provide for their children"

which evidence?



Work and Pensions Secretary Damian Green said: "Each statistic represents a person who has moved into employment and can now enjoy the security and dignity that works brings.

"By making sure that those people who are out of work are faced with the same choices as those who are in work, the benefit cap has been a real success.

"By lowering the cap today, we are ensuring the values of this Government continue to chime with those of ordinary working people and delivering on our commitment to make sure work pays more than welfare."

[kirklancaster]

I am not commenting on this article or the underlying points in it, because I have not the time at present, but I will say, that there are certain TRUTHS that A LOT OF people seem to overlook;

There are thousands upon thousands of hardworking ordinary families with children who DO NOT EARN anywhere NEAR £23,000 pa.

the 'rising costs of living' mentioned within the article affects THEM just as it does those CUSHIONED by benefits.

Most of these families have NO disposable income and could NOT afford to live in London or a thousand other locations South of Watford, which seem to be the locations where much of these 'statistics' are centred on.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am not commenting on this article or the underlying points in it, because I have not the time at present, but I will say, that there are certain TRUTHS that A LOT OF people seem to overlook;

There are thousands upon thousands of hardworking ordinary families with children who DO NOT EARN anywhere NEAR £23,000 pa.

the 'rising costs of living' mentioned within the article affects THEM just as it does those CUSHIONED by benefits.

Most of these families have NO disposable income and could NOT afford to live in London or a thousand other locations South of Watford, which seem to be the locations where much of these 'statistics' are centred on.

I have to agree with you here Kirk. When I read the OP I thought wow those benefits, even with the cuts, are better than a lot of peoples wage. I'm not sure I see that they are being deprived or put on the breadline based off those figures.

We do however have a welfare state to be proud of and the tories do love to mess with it.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am not commenting on this article or the underlying points in it, because I have not the time at present, but I will say, that there are certain TRUTHS that A LOT OF people seem to overlook;

There are thousands upon thousands of hardworking ordinary families with children who DO NOT EARN anywhere NEAR £23,000 pa.

the 'rising costs of living' mentioned within the article affects THEM just as it does those CUSHIONED by benefits.

Most of these families have NO disposable income and could NOT afford to live in London or a thousand other locations South of Watford, which seem to be the locations where much of these 'statistics' are centred on.

Originally Posted by jaxie

I have to agree with you here Kirk. When I read the OP I thought wow those benefits, even with the cuts, are better than a lot of peoples wage. I'm not sure I see that they are being deprived.

That's not even vaguely how it works, though. Benefits scale with earned income so, no, a family of four with an income of say £16,000 would still be getting working tax credit, child tax credit and child benefit bringing their total after-tax income to around £25500. Total for the same family with two unemployed adults would have been about £21000, now capped at £20000.

It scales in this way across the range of earned income so the idea that "hard working families" end up worse off than those not working is nonsense. The only way it could be even vaguely true is if the person working has absolutely massive travel costs.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's not even vaguely how it works, though. Benefits scale with earned income so, no, a family of four with an income of say £16,000 would still be getting working tax credit, child tax credit and child benefit bringing their total after-tax income to around £25500. Total for the same family with two unemployed adults would have been about £21000, now capped at £20000.

It scales in this way across the range of earned income so the idea that "hard working families" end up worse off than those not working is nonsense. The only way it could be even vaguely true is if the person working has absolutely massive travel costs.

I don't know TS, tbh, I've never been on benefits in my life. It just sounded a lot on paper.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

That's not even vaguely how it works, though. Benefits scale with earned income so, no, a family of four with an income of say £16,000 would still be getting working tax credit, child tax credit and child benefit bringing their total after-tax income to around £25500. Total for the same family with two unemployed adults would have been about £21000, now capped at £20000.

It scales in this way across the range of earned income so the idea that "hard working families" end up worse off than those not working is nonsense. The only way it could be even vaguely true is if the person working has absolutely massive travel costs.

I'm afraid that without researching this (and I have not time at present) I have to defer to your superior knowledge here T.S. because I am not au fait with the specifics and minutiae of Benefit Allowances - other than direct personal knowledge of what SOME unmarried mothers and their live-in partners are receiving for their very large number of children, and that is not pertinent here.

I will say though, that as far as my statement on these cuts go, I did base it on the very information given in the OP and linked article:

"From Monday. the annual limit on welfare payments to unemployed households will drop from £26,000 to £23,000 in London and £20,000 outside the capital."

Thus, I assumed that £26,000 is THE current amount in London.

"The move was announced by George Osborne last year and has been described as a "monstrous" assault on struggling families that will shatter the life chances of the poorest children.

Around 20,000 families are currently capped by an annual limit of £26,000 (or £500 a week) on total household benefits, introduced in 2013. But the new lower caps are set to bring an explosion in the numbers affected to around 64,000 households.

Nearly two thirds of those affected are single mothers, according to the general union GMB."

Thus, I assumed that this means that over 43,000 SINGLE mothers are currently in receipt of total benefits of £26,000 pa.

Now if this is the case - as the article states it is - then I do not know of any single working mothers who enjoy incomes of £26,000 pa.

Take into account that from single working mothers incomes HAS to be deducted mortgage/rent payments, Council Tax, working expenses - food and travel etc - unlike non-working single mothers, and I am still of the opinion that the average working single mother is a lot worse off in real terms than her non-working counterpart.

I am here to be educated T.S. - and that is NOT me being sarcastic or facetious but totally genuine.

[joeysteele]

This is one of the many things as to policy why I turned my back on the Conservative party.

This is just one of a good number of badly thought out, heartless and truly rotten plans directed at the most vulnerable in society.
Reducing an already guaranteed cap should be a national scandal.

Shocking and shameful in my view.

[Denver]

Dont worry it will all go to the immigrants

[arista]

Originally Posted by Adam.

Dont worry it will all go to the immigrants

Only 30%

[Crimson Dynamo]

How people are unemployed in London is a mystery there and jobs all over the shop

idgi

[Vicky.]

Its a ****ing joke to be quite honest. The Tories and the rags have done a fantastic job of demonizing benefit claimants..the amount of people going on about how Joe down the road currently gets 100k per year in benefit income for doing nothing (impossible) is truly bizarre.

I won't go into all of the reasons I think this is cruel and unneeded, but lets chose one. Most people hit by this will be those with high rents. Who cares, they can move?!?!?!?! But as TS said above, these expensive places couold not function without lower paid workers, so shift all the unemployed/low wages out of one place, its a bit ****ed. But even ignoring that..it costs a load of cash to move house. If you are on benefits you would need over a grand just for the deposit. A months rent in advance. And to be actually able to move your stuff, so lets say 200 quid there. On top of that 99 times out of 100 you will also need a guarantor, which is getting harder and harder to find given so few people own their houses these days and even if they do, they are unlikely to want to take the risk of your benefits being stopped for whatever reason the jobcentre makes up that month as if this happens your guarantor is responsible for paying your rent. So, we are expecting someone with no disposable income and facing having even less income to find maybe 2k from thin air to move house. Its just unrealistic.

This also hits disabled people. Even though its made out it does not. Those on ESA are included in this cap. Along with having their ESA slashed at the same time to bring it into line with JSA..as an 'incentive' to work. Those in the support group of ESA are not included. However those in the 'work focused' group are. Remember these are people who have already jumped through a ridiculous amount of hoops, no doubt been told they are liars, their doctors and consultants are liars, been cured by the miracle workers at ATOS, then gone through a grueling stressful tribunal before its finally acknowledged that ATOS workers do not actually have the healing hands of Jesus and they actually are ill enough to not work right now.

The lie that people are better off on benefits than in work is just that, a lie. If this has happened to you, I can guarantee that you are not claiming something you are entitled to. Especially given 13bn worth of benefits go unclaimed each year.

I could understand the cuts left right and centre if it was only able bodied working age people AND there were an abundance of jobs (real jobs, not commission only and 0 hour contracts...) that were going unfilled. But this isn't the case. Jobs (regardless of what the rags tell you) are so few and far between. A friend who works there told me a few days back that a 16 hr per week shelf filling job in Iceland here had over 100 applicants within 2 days of being advertised. You cannot 'incentivize' someone into work if there is no work for them. Along with DWPs own records showing cutting someones income makes it less likely they will get back into work.

And in the long run, none of these cuts even save ****ing money. The bedroom tax that some people still love...the benefit bill went up because of this and now we have a bunch of larger properties empty...while their previous occupants are living in B&Bs which cost the public purse even more. And why? Its not saving anything, its wasting more accommodation and its uprooting families.

The clear answer to this all is not more bloody cuts. It is investing money into more social housing. Yes it will cost more right now, but in the long run its best all round. While building these properties, so many more people will actually get work. Builders and such...so more tax payed along with more employment. Affordable rents for more people. More properties available...private landlords will have to lower their prices and the benefit bill will ACTUALLY go down..as you are looking to the future instead of just demonizing those on low incomes.

And stop the ridiculous right to buy scheme. I mean, I can benefit from this if I can save up 40k. I can buy my house for a lot less than its worth. But why is this an option for me? When we are short on affordable housing why the **** are we still selling it off? Its madness.