[Northern Monkey]

Youtube video

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by North Star Monkey

Youtube video

I think it is an issue we all need to be rationale about.

Whilst i don't think it would be a good idea for people to be able to be offensive for the sake of being offensive, I do think people should be able to openly criticize practices/beliefs considered wrong by the majority. To simply shut people down, as often happens here, because their view is not popular with a given group is unacceptable in the free world.

Some groups, by just about anyone's standards, are far too easily offended, although I also believe an element of that is theatrics to cause drama and put pressure on government bodies to close down any opposition. Complete manipulation.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Whilst i don't think it would be a good idea for people to be able to be offensive for the sake of being offensive, I do think people should be able to openly criticize practices/beliefs considered wrong by the majority. To simply shut people down, as often happens here, because their view is not popular with a given group is unacceptable in the free world.

"By the majority"? So mob rule? No thanks... "The majority" are loud-mouthed simpletons who couldn't cobble together an original opinion if they were given an instruction manual and a litre of gorilla glue.

I do agree with the rest... Not a good idea for people to just be offensive for the sake of it, but people should be able to openly criticise beliefs and practices that they do not agree with, without fear of persecution. But that applies whether it is an opinion of a minority group OR the opinion of the masses. The public, and the human race, en masse, hold endless beliefs and opinions that are in full need of extreme criticism. In my opinion .

[Withano]

Wait, his only example for offensive things today was lads mags? And "student leaders" who are accidentally offending? Which is worse than purposely offending? Not sure how well that point came off. The entire video just seemed like a piece of homework but he forgot to read the paragraph with the point in it tbh.

I think if you actively want to offend groups of people you're a bit of a ****, theres no need, its easier to not do that. Sure you have freedom of speech, it doesnt mean anybody wants to hear your ill-informed whine.
Ive Noticed a lot of people go on a rant, include their mindless insults to their least favourite communities, and calling it freedom of speech, but then crying about it when somebody criticises it.. but if you want freedom of speech then you need to accept criticism.. Thats kind of the point.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Withano

but if you want freedom of speech then you need to accept criticism.

This is also very true. A lot of people tend to confuse the freedom to say what you want, with the freedom to say whatever you want and not have anyone call you out or criticise you for what you have to say. Usually with bull**** soundbites like "I'm entitled to my opinion!" Etc. Etc... Etc.

Everyone should be entitled to their opinion, yes, and this includes being entitled to form an opinion OF another person, based on the opinions that they have expressed.

And that's really what it comes down to. If you want to be an opinionated person, you HAVE to accept that some (or many, depending on the opinion) people will not like you for it. Anyone who can't handle that should learn to keep their opinions to themselves... Or prepare for a life of often feeling hard-done-by .

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Santa

This is also very true. A lot of people tend to confuse the freedom to say what you want, with the freedom to say whatever you want and not have anyone call you out or criticise you for what you have to say. Usually with bull**** soundbites like "I'm entitled to my opinion!" Etc. Etc... Etc.

Everyone should be entitled to their opinion, yes, and this includes being entitled to form an opinion OF another person, based on the opinions that they have expressed.

And that's really what it comes down to. If you want to be an opinionated person, you HAVE to accept that some (or many, depending on the opinion) people will not like you for it. Anyone who can't handle that should learn to keep their opinions to themselves... Or prepare for a life of often feeling hard-done-by .

That very much works both ways!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

That very much works both ways!

It works every way, yes, and anyone pretending that either "side" (there are in reality dozens of sides of course, not two) is less guilty of anything than the other is full of ****. There are individuals in any setting who A) can't accept that people hold differing opinions, B) can't handle people not liking them for their debatably horrible opinions, or C) (and worst) both of these.

[Tom4784]

I often find that people who pretend to care about Free Speech and believe that political correctness is the devil are often the most likely to take offence at everything that doesn't match their own viewpoints.

Just look at the 'news stories' that pop up every Christmas about how 'liberals and muslims are trying to get rid of Christmas' or the furore over the Starbucks cup not being Christmassy enough. It's all basically bait for the types of people that would normally screech about Free Speech to get their knickers in a twist over.

Those kinds of people will only endorse and defend Free Speech for as long as it works for them. They have little interest in Free Speech when it comes to thoughts and opinions that don't match their own.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I often find that people who pretend to care about Free Speech and believe that political correctness is the devil are often the most likely to take offence at everything that doesn't match their own viewpoints.

Just look at the 'news stories' that pop up every Christmas about how 'liberals and muslims are trying to get rid of Christmas' or the furore over the Starbucks cup not being Christmassy enough. It's all basically bait for the types of people that would normally screech about Free Speech to get their knickers in a twist over.

Those kinds of people will only endorse and defend Free Speech for as long as it works for them. They have little interest in Free Speech when it comes to thoughts and opinions that don't match their own.

You are nearly always one of the first to get offended and insulting and calling those with opinions you don't share on immigration, for example, as bigots and racists.

Hardly in a position to act as though you are above such behaviour and attempt to imply it is always those with opposing opinions to you that do. Getting your knickers in a twist is a right only reserved for those who care so deeply about different types of people hey!

As usual, opinions on that will be varied!

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I do think people should be able to openly criticize practices/beliefs considered wrong by the majority. To simply shut people down, as often happens here

Some groups, by just about anyone's standards, are far too easily offended, although I also believe an element of that is theatrics to cause drama and put pressure on government bodies to close down any opposition. Complete manipulation.

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You are nearly always one of the first to get offended and insulting and calling those with opinions you don't share on immigration, for example, as bigots and racists.

Hardly in a position to act as though you are above such behaviour and attempt to imply it is always those with opposing opinions to you that do. Getting your knickers in a twist is a right only reserved for those who care so deeply about different types of people

Do you not think these two posts directly contradict each other and you just completely proved the 'freedom of speech until it doesnt go their way' / 'offence at everything that doesn't match their own viewpoints.' entirely correct

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

Do you not think these two posts directly contradict each other and you just completely proved the 'freedom of speech until it doesnt go their way' / 'offence at everything that doesn't match their own viewpoints.' entirely correct

Clearly not seeing the same thing. They are intended to demonstrate the hypocrisy of those who constantly take offence at any opposition to mass migration into Europe.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Clearly not seeing the same thing. They are intended to demonstrate the hypocrisy of those who constantly take offence at any opposition to mass migration into Europe.

In summary what you have said in this thread is the following

I love freedom of speech cos I get to say what I want, however people cant say what they want about my thoughts, freedom of speech only applies to me.

Youve embarrassed yourself on this one matey boy.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You are nearly always one of the first to get offended and insulting and calling those with opinions you don't share on immigration, for example, as bigots and racists.

Hardly in a position to act as though you are above such behaviour and attempt to imply it is always those with opposing opinions to you that do. Getting your knickers in a twist is a right only reserved for those who care so deeply about different types of people hey!

As usual, opinions on that will be varied!

Where the the receipts on your claims? I won't hold my breath on you actually backing them up because you can't and it's just basically baseless slander on your part.

Even if someone did call you a bigot for your opinions then is it not Freedom of Speech? Or does that only apply to you? You taking offense to my opnions is basically proving what I'm saying to be correct. You can't handle opinions that don't allign with your own.

I've never tried to silence your opinions on subjects, I'd rather question it then suppress it. It seems like you consider someone questioning your opinion to be the same as trying to censor it. Freedom of Speech is a two way street, if you're going to speak out about people taking offense to what you have to say then you can't suddenly act like a victim if someone questions your own opinions.

You are allowed an opinion and everyone else is allowed to question it. I've lost count of how many times I've said that in Serious Debates.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Where the the receipts on your claims? I won't hold my breath on you actually backing them up because you can't and it's just basically baseless slander on your part.

Even if someone did call you a bigot for your opinions then is it not Freedom of Speech? Or does that only apply to you? You taking offense to my opnions is basically proving what I'm saying to be correct. You can't handle opinions that don't allign with your own.

I've never tried to silence your opinions on subjects, I'd rather question it then suppress it. It seems like you consider someone questioning your opinion to be the same as trying to censor it. Freedom of Speech is a two way street, if you're going to speak out about people taking offense to what you have to say then you can't suddenly act like a victim if someone questions your own opinions.

You are allowed an opinion and everyone else is allowed to question it. I've lost count of how many times I've said that in Serious Debates.

The are many can testify to your tendency to calling others bigots and racists. Remember once put out there it stays out there so good luck with your further baseless allegations on slander.

Your opinion is simply that, an opinion, nothing more, so whilst no-one is likely to be too bothered about that, it is the principle and hypocrisy of people like you that is what is really offensive. You clearly don't take criticism well, nobody does if honest about it. However some will desperately attempt to suggest they are above all that despite it being out there for all to see. All bluster.

Of course everyone is allowed an opinion, in theory, however being a mod enables some to shut down those not in agreement with their own.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

The are many can testify to your tendency to calling others bigots and racists. Remember once put out there it stays out there so good luck with your further baseless allegations on slander.

Your opinion is simply that, an opinion, nothing more, so whilst no-one is likely to be too bothered about that, it is the principle and hypocrisy of people like you that is what is really offensive. You clearly don't take criticism well, nobody does if honest about it. However some will desperately attempt to suggest they are above all that despite it being out there for all to see. All bluster.

Of course everyone is allowed an opinion, in theory, however being a mod enables some to shut down those not in agreement with their own.

So no proof, as usual. Just the typical 'I know you are but what am I' response.

I take criticism well and it's hilarious that you should say that when you and yours have led a campaign of bullying against me just because I happen to have a different opinion.

The truth is that you can't argue against, not because the fact that I'm a mod but because your opinion is often hypocritical like it is in this thread and you trip yourself up. It's always been that way, Wombai.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Where the the receipts on your claims? I won't hold my breath on you actually backing them up because you can't and it's just basically baseless slander on your part.

Even if someone did call you a bigot for your opinions then is it not Freedom of Speech? Or does that only apply to you? You taking offense to my opnions is basically proving what I'm saying to be correct. You can't handle opinions that don't allign with your own.

I've never tried to silence your opinions on subjects, I'd rather question it then suppress it. It seems like you consider someone questioning your opinion to be the same as trying to censor it. Freedom of Speech is a two way street, if you're going to speak out about people taking offense to what you have to say then you can't suddenly act like a victim if someone questions your own opinions.

You are allowed an opinion and everyone else is allowed to question it. I've lost count of how many times I've said that in Serious Debates.

A bit harsh accusing Brillo of slander.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I often find that people who pretend to care about Free Speech and believe that political correctness is the devil are often the most likely to take offence at everything that doesn't match their own viewpoints.

Just look at the 'news stories' that pop up every Christmas about how 'liberals and muslims are trying to get rid of Christmas' or the furore over the Starbucks cup not being Christmassy enough. It's all basically bait for the types of people that would normally screech about Free Speech to get their knickers in a twist over.

Those kinds of people will only endorse and defend Free Speech for as long as it works for them. They have little interest in Free Speech when it comes to thoughts and opinions that don't match their own.

Christians often forgive, muslims usually dont. How do you solve that equation?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by the truth

Christians often forgive, muslims usually dont. How do you solve that equation?

By educating yourself about religion

[user104658]

Originally Posted by the truth

Christians often forgive, muslims usually dont. How do you solve that equation?

... Yes, certainly no judgemental, pig-headed Christians out there.

[Withano]

You need to reread your words or have a rest, its actually quite humerous how many times you contradicted yourself / proved a point you were fighting against in this thread

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

You need to reread your words or have a rest, its actually quite humerous how many times you contradicted yourself / proved a point you were fighting against in this thread

Seriously, you really think I take your opinion very seriously.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Seriously, you really think I take your opinion very seriously.

You contradicting yourself in this thread is more of a fact than my opinion. I dont know you enough to understand whether you take facts seriously or not. Perhaps not if youre disregarding this one.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

You contradicting yourself in this thread is more of a fact than my opinion. I dont know you enough to understand whether you take facts seriously or not. Perhaps not if youre disregarding this one.

No it isn't you just misunderstand what you read. That's your problem not mine.

[Tom4784]

The meat and potatoes of this issue is that people confuse Freedom of Speech with not having to face consequences for what they say which is wrong because ALL opinions come with consequences regardless of Free Speech.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The meat and potatoes of this issue is that people confuse Freedom of Speech with not having to face consequences for what they say which is wrong because ALL opinions come with consequences regardless of Free Speech.

Freedom of speech is about being able to criticise dubious beliefs/practice carried out in the name of religion and such criticism not being stifled to appease any particular group. No subject matter should be beyond criticism as some on here seem to suggest.

What should be the consequences for criticising female subjugation within the Muslim religion in Britain in your opinion, particularly bearing in mind we are supposed to believe in sexual equality in this country. Seriously this is an important issue and should be addressed, not ignored.