[Shasown]

A soldier has been jailed by court martial after refusing to fight in Afghanistan.

Lance Corporal Joe Glenton went absent without leave (AWOL) rather than serve a second tour in the country. He later campaigned against the conflict.

The 27-year-old was jailed for nine months and reduced to the ranks at a military court in Colchester, Essex, after admitting the AWOL charge.

The court martial hearing was told that Glenton went missing on June 11, 2007, when he was due to return to Dalton Barracks in Abingdon, Oxfordshire.

He was absent for 737 days before handing himself in, prosecutor Group Captain Tim Backer said.

Glenton, from York, had already performed a seven-month tour of duty in Afghanistan in 2006 serving with the Royal Logistic Corps, the hearing was told.

On his return, he was ordered to go back to the conflict zone after nine months, although army guidelines suggest soldiers should not be deployed again within 18 months.

Nick Wrack, speaking in mitigation, said Glenton suffered from post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) after his first stint in the war zone.

When the soldier raised concerns about going back out, he suffered bullying, Mr Wrack said.

"When he first raised with his staff sergeant his reluctance to be deployed again, instead of being dealt with in a sensible way it resulted in the sergeant at the time bullying and intimidating Lance Corporal Glenton," said Mr Wrack.

"He was called a coward and a malingerer.

"When this information was brought to his commanding officer, the sergeant was spoken to, but this reinforced the bullying."

Glenton was the first serving member of the armed forces to have headed up an anti-war demonstration since the invasion of Afghanistan in October 2001.


Courtesy of Sky News.

[arista]

Wasted Money.

[ILoveTRW]

Reminds me of Ryan from The Real World Brooklyn

he got called back whilst being filmed, he had planned to go to college after he left brooklyn but had to drop it all to go and serve in iraq for a war he didnt believe in
heartbreaking

[Tom4784]

I don't blame him in the slightest this war's ridiculous and pointless and we should have never got involved nevermind still have soldiers there so many years afterwards.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't blame him in the slightest this war's ridiculous and pointless and we should have never got involved nevermind still have soldiers there so many years afterwards.

Not exactly pointless;

It allowed the US and UK to be seen to be doing something after the terrorist strikes on the twin Towers etc.

It also turned peoples focus on overseas affairs as opposed to problems at home.

Plus it now provides US forces more overseas bases to jump from, into other countries should future US foreign policy dictate.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I don't blame him in the slightest this war's ridiculous and pointless and we should have never got involved nevermind still have soldiers there so many years afterwards.

Completely agree! I applaud this soldier for having the guts to stand up and refuse to go! In many ways that is equally as brave as going to Afghanistan, bearing in mind the trouble he was going to get into and the stick he was likely to receive from many.

The soldiers shouldn't be there - isn't it bad enough that we have lost so many in the name of such a pointless war - nevermind adding to the total by continuing to keep them there!

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Not exactly pointless;

It allowed the US and UK to be seen to be doing something after the terrorist strikes on the twin Towers etc.

It also turned peoples focus on overseas affairs as opposed to problems at home.

Plus it now provides US forces more overseas bases to jump from, into other countries should future US foreign policy dictate.

Dishonest, manipulative morally pointless reasons - that do not justify the loss of all the soldiers' lives - a complete manipulative sham!

[arista]

What he said outside the Court
was Bang On Right.

They are not out there Protecting UK
It is a Illegal Invasion War.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Dishonest, manipulative morally pointless reasons - that do not justify the loss of all the soldiers' lives - a complete manipulative sham!

PMSL of course they are, thats why i posted them. I did not say they were legitimate military legal aims. Just that there was were several points to the invasion of Afghanistan.

[Stu]

Fair play to him. Sending him to prison for not participating in a 'freedom' war? What fucking irony.

[Shasown]

No they sent him to prison for being absent without leave,(AWOL) thats different than being charged with failing to comply with orders, or desertion. If they had charged him with failing to comply with orders or desrtion he could have a case to appeal, challenging the legality of operations in Afghanistan and take it all the way through the UK courts up through the House of Lords and then into Europe.

Its a minor point but are the MOD admitting the war is actually illegal? Though they do justify military action under UN Security Council Resolution 1267 and UN Security Council Resolution 1386 for the invasion of Afghanistan and operations undertaken there since 2001.

[*mazedsalv**]

I dont get it... does that mean that you need to be in the war until it ends....?

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by *mazedsalv**

I dont get it... does that mean that you need to be in the war until it ends....?

Well if the US and the UK pulled out there would be no war and the Taliban would move back in and take control of the country again, meaning the invasion and all the losses since were in vain.

[*mazedsalv**]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Well if the US and the UK pulled out there would be no war and the Taliban would move back in and take control of the country again, meaning the invasion and all the losses since were in vain.

Basically its either fight it out and survive until the end (which can be a long way away) or you will get killed... that is horrible Not only are the hero's fighting for the country but they are fighting to see their family and their partners, as the last visit could have been the last time they saw a family member
I swear, I dont even remember what the war even is about? We need to reach a mutual agreement, we are losing too many soldiers and I think if someone wants to back out for any reason (could be a valid one) then they should be able to... but this is me talking even though I dont understand exactly what is going on.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by *mazedsalv**

Basically its either fight it out and survive until the end (which can be a long way away) or you will get killed... that is horrible Not only are the hero's fighting for the country but they are fighting to see their family and their partners, as the last visit could have been the last time they saw a family member
I swear, I dont even remember what the war even is about? We need to reach a mutual agreement, we are losing too many soldiers and I think if someone wants to back out for any reason (could be a valid one) then they should be able to... but this is me talking even though I dont understand exactly what is going on.

Lol if only things could be that simple, unfortunately he joined up. In doing so you sign over certain rights, for the training, the wage, the adventure, the mates, the camaraderie, visiting exotic lands and either killing or being killed by some of the locals.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Well if the US and the UK pulled out there would be no war and the Taliban would move back in and take control of the country again, meaning the invasion and all the losses since were in vain.

Personally - I don't buy into that argument. There are no guarantees that staying will acheive anything other than further loss of life - and even if it did - how could that in anyway validate the deaths of so many soldiers, how could it in any way make their deaths worthwhile.

As for the problems with the Taliban - that is for Afghanistan to sort out. Much as I feel for the innocent people of Afghanistan - I do not consider it a cause worth the loss of our men and womens' lives. We have to look after our own!

[arista]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Well if the US and the UK pulled out there would be no war and the Taliban would move back in and take control of the country again, meaning the invasion and all the losses since were in vain.

No Leave the Yanks there
it is there Problem
All UK out.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Personally - I don't buy into that argument. There are no guarantees that staying will acheive anything other than further loss of life - and even if it did - how could that in anyway validate the deaths of so many soldiers, how could it in any way make their deaths worthwhile.

As for the problems with the Taliban - that is for Afghanistan to sort out. Much as I feel for the innocent people of Afghanistan - I do not consider it a cause worth the loss of our men and womens, lives. We have to look after our own!

Ah I see, you dont buy into helping an oppressed people remove a tyrannical fundamentalist government, its no concern of ours? You dont care that said government did allow terrorist training camps and you feel the invasion was wrong? You dont mind that that government was financing itself through the heroin trade?

You see UN sanctions and embargos were introduced but they were seen to be failing, hitting the poor people of Afghanistan at a time of famine anyway. They didnt really affect the leadership of the country. Just the poor.

Well our leaders at the time decided to invade, so blame Blair and Bush. Even if another government were elected this year to replace the current labour one, they still couldnt pull troops out over a period less than about 12 months.

They decided they were acting legally in support of UN Mandates and resolutions. As we are part of the UN Security Council we have to follow Mandates and Resolutions - British fair play and all that. So yeah i suppose we could just say , we want...... then expect others to deliver, and to rely simply on the UN to actually do something except sit and debate is a laughable concept.

The operations in Afghanistan are attempting to help a country that was run by the Taliban get back on its feet, reduce the amount of Heroin coming not only from but through Afghanistan and removing the terrorist training camps from the area.

If the current operations in Afghanistan against the Taliban and the parallel operations in Pakistan being undertaken by their armed forces are both successful then the future involvement of our forces in that area will be dramatically reduced.

Well thats the official party line anyways. Its up to you if you believe them.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Not exactly pointless;

It allowed the US and UK to be seen to be doing something after the terrorist strikes on the twin Towers etc.

It also turned peoples focus on overseas affairs as opposed to problems at home.

Plus it now provides US forces more overseas bases to jump from, into other countries should future US foreign policy dictate.

Is the loss of life worth it though? We've lost hundreds of soldiers and MANY innocent Iraqi lives have been lost, granted that we've taken out Saddam Hussein but now the country's in a state of unrest with groups fighting against democracy. more lives are gonna be lost and that'll only lead to more anger that terrorist groups can use to manipulate people into joining them.

My knowledge of the matter's probably not as good as yours but to me it just feels like a massive waste of life on both sides.

[BB_Eye]

This whole regime change thing is a waste of time. I would go so far as to call this a pre-emptive war as the US and UK were never strictly invaded by the Taliban, only attacked. We may aswell go invade North Korea (possibly the worst dictatorship on Earth) for sending spies to kidnap our allies in South Korea and Japan. It would probably be easier.

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Ah I see, you dont buy into helping an oppressed people remove a tyrannical fundamentalist government, its no concern of ours? You dont care that said government did allow terrorist training camps and you feel the invasion was wrong? You dont mind that that government was financing itself through the heroin trade?

You see UN sanctions and embargos were introduced but they were seen to be failing, hitting the poor people of Afghanistan at a time of famine anyway. They didnt really affect the leadership of the country. Just the poor.

Well our leaders at the time decided to invade, so blame Blair and Bush. Even if another government were elected this year to replace the current labour one, they still couldnt pull troops out over a period less than about 12 months.

They decided they were acting legally in support of UN Mandates and resolutions. As we are part of the UN Security Council we have to follow Mandates and Resolutions - British fair play and all that. So yeah i suppose we could just say , we want...... then expect others to deliver, and to rely simply on the UN to actually do something except sit and debate is a laughable concept.

The operations in Afghanistan are attempting to help a country that was run by the Taliban get back on its feet, reduce the amount of Heroin coming not only from but through Afghanistan and removing the terrorist training camps from the area.

If the current operations in Afghanistan against the Taliban and the parallel operations in Pakistan being undertaken by their armed forces are both successful then the future involvement of our forces in that area will be dramatically reduced.

Well thats the official party line anyways. Its up to you if you believe them.

Yes - my priority is for our own young men and women over and above the oppressed people of Afghanistan - I won't feel guilty about that! Those oppressed people apparently don't want us there anyway - many have made it clear that we have out-stayed our welcome!

Most men and women sign up to protect their own country, if needs be - not to risk their lives for the political ends of dishonest politicians or to solve the religious problems of other nations. The people of Afghanistan should do more to help themselves and stand up to the tyranny of such regimes as the Taliban. It is not our responsibility!

[bananarama]

Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot

Fair play to him. Sending him to prison for not participating in a 'freedom' war? What fucking irony.

Troops cannot be allowed to pick which war they agree with or not..That would lead to chaos.......He should be booted out and or jailed for life as an example of being a traitor and coward.....

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bananarama

Troops cannot be allowed to pick which war they agree with or not..That would lead to chaos.......He should be booted out and or jailed for life as an example of being a traitor and coward.....

Ever heard of Post Traumatic Stress? It's easy to brand someone a coward when you're not there yourself.

[bananarama]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Ever heard of Post Traumatic Stress? It's easy to brand someone a coward when you're not there yourself.

Sure have but some use it as an excuse to pick and choose and get political..service men by the nature of their job should not get political and judgmental about what war is right or wrong........They should get on with the job or get out........

This character is a a coward and years ago they would have shot him.......Time to put the clock back......

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by bananarama

Sure have but some use it as an excuse to pick and choose and get political..service men by the nature of their job should not get political and judgmental about what war is right or wrong........They should get on with the job or get out........

This character is a a coward and years ago they would have shot him.......Time to put the clock back......

They called PTS cowardice back then, It was ignorant then and it's ignorant now. Unless you are this man's personal doctor then you can't dispute that he had PTS. It's oh so easy to condemn people behind a computer screen isn't it? You'd be singing a different tune if you experienced what that man has experienced. You wouldn't be so eager for blood then.