[Jack_]

I kinda wanted to put this into one long post because there's so many different threads on so many different issues that I can't be bothered explaining them all separately, so here goes...

It became clear in the first week that Daley wasn't emotionally/mentally stable, his random crying and saying that he had come into the house to 'sort sh*t out' and become a new person, referencing his past and issues he has outside of the house, and him isolating himself from the rest of the group pretty much confirmed everything he said about himself as a person during tonight's interview (that he doesn't like group situations, had a troubled past, has difficult issues that need resolving etc).

Then everything in the middle of his stay happened...he went from a bore to having this storyline with Hazel. I'd first of all like to make a distinction here between their relationship and the incident which had him removed of which I will get onto a minute...the latter he is solely responsible, the former however I believe is largely a 50/50 issue, where both he and Hazel share the blame. He may have been the one that had a girlfriend, and his lack of self control was abhorrent, but Hazel's deliberate attempts to goad him (trying to give him a hard-on and then loving it when she had and trying to escalate the situation further even though he made clear several times he wanted her to go away) knowing full well he had a girlfriend (I don't care whether he changed his mind half way through, if you go into that house proclaiming how much you love your girlfriend, you have a ****ing girlfriend...alarm bells should've been ringing in her head that suddenly he'd decided she didn't exist when he realised he wanted to bone Hazel) and no matter how much he asked her not to come near him during the instances when his dick was throbbing. They both share the blame as far as I'm concerned and even Katie herself made that clear that she thought the same, commenting on how she couldn't understand how another woman could act in such a way.

Anyway...now onto the incident itself. I do accept the argument that it was playfighting for the most part, and I do actually think it may have been roleplay for a while, but the only thing that throws that whole argument into disarray is (and I don't think this has been mentioned much, especially by those who didn't see the live feed as the editors oh so brilliantly decided to leave it out ) the fact he was demanding she came to bed when she was outside talking to Charlie, even going as far as to make up Big Brother had spoken to him and asked her to come in because the 'garden was out of bounds'. Then he started counting down to himself and swearing under his breath when she wouldn't, saying things like 'what is it with ****ing women' (IIRC). That was probably the strangest part of it all to me.

However, putting that aside, I do believe it was playfighting that took on roleplay. They were both laughing and a lot of the comments were obviously of a sexual nature, when he said 'I'll finish you' she responded with 'I'll finish you off first'...now I'm sorry but that's definitely a sexual reference and she said it with the dirtiest smirk I've ever seen. The ass smacking was harder than it should've been but I do believe it was part of the role-play, and I do think her pulling his shorts down was to try and turn him on (it was right that she got a warning for it though, joke or not it's an unacceptable action) and the fact he laughed at it meant that it hadn't turned aggressive. The point at which it did IMO is when he had got his covers back and then went up close to her and started his whole 'respect your ****ing elders or I'll nut you one' whilst strangling her and pinning her to the bed...that was the bit whilst watching where I began to get quite disturbed, and it was clear that she did too...I'm really not buying this argument from some people that she was loving it, she got out of the bed and went and sat in a chair whilst looking sheepish for **** sake, she was trying to get as far away from him as possible. She was expressionless when he left the room to go to the diary room. And I bought her explanation in the diary room too, she seemed quite taken aback by it.

It doesn't matter that they slept together and cuddled the next day either, she obviously took it as an out of character, spur of the moment action that frightened her at that particular moment but once it had been sorted by Big Brother she assumed that would be it and things would be normal the next day. People making out that by her sleeping with him she wasn't afraid, please...do one.

Now...I don't think Daley's this evil cunting thug that deserves the death penalty as some seem to be making out on here. What he did was totally unacceptable and his ejection was completely justified, but I do believe he is (or at least has the potential to be) a nice guy. Like I said at the beginning, I genuinely think he is emotionally and mentally unstable, it was clear from the first week he went in and this incident only further proved it. His interview tonight seemed sincere and you could tell he was extremely close to breaking down, I don't just think that's over the incident, I believe that's a culmination of years of real life issues, his background, his experience on Big Brother as a whole and the realisation that was has happened in the past few days may have jeopardised his relationship and his career (which I hope it doesn't), that alone would be enough to tip anyone over the edge.

I think he just needs some professional help, that's all. There were lots of times in the house that he came across as a nice guy, and I guess that's why this whole thing was so bizarre, I mean we all thought he was the house bore for a long time, I doubt any of us would have thought he'd be ejected, especially for an incident like this. He seems apologetic and that he understands why he was removed and that it was probably for the better for him too. It's good that he thinks Big Brother has changed him too, at least some good can come of his experience.

And that's it really.

[cookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I think he just needs some professional help, that's all. .

yep. i wouldn't say 'that's all' though. professional help isn't a walk in the park

[Kizzy]

Of course he's apologetic people like that are, he admitted he was wrong as a professional sportsman he should know when to walk away.
The excuses that he was tired/drunk/hungry made me furious, 100's of men get tired and hungry they do NOT react in that fashion do they?
It was known in the house he changed after alcohol as both dan and hazel mentioned 'the eye thing'...
I would go so far as to say he has paranoid schizophrenia, seriously...
The guy should never have been in there.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Of course he's apologetic people like that are, he admitted he was wrong as a professional sportsman he should know when to walk away.
The excuses that he was tired/drunk/hungry made me furious, 100's of men get tired and hungry they do NOT react in that fashion do they?
It was known in the house he changed after alcohol as both dan and hazel mentioned 'the eye thing'...
I would go so far as to say he has paranoid schizophrenia, seriously...
The guy should never have been in there.

I never said they did and those excuses weren't acceptable either, he was totally responsible for his actions

What I'm saying is that he seems mentally unhinged, that's more of an explanation for his actions than drink, hunger etc

[kate2013]

The whole relationship between Daley and Hazel was about control. She wanted to control and dominate him in the house with her insistance for "cuddles" so she could get off on the power of turning him on, and then walking away.

When they got in the safe house it was bound to become intense because this was never about genuine feeling. The tug of war continued, and Daley became more dominant. You could see where this was going. Hazel had already said to Dan that what she was doing with Daley was out of "boredom."

Daley showed his spilt character, Callum already warned him he was crossing aline, it was only when Dexter pointed it out he began to listen instead of take offense.

To have Katie on, then put up and option for Daley and Hazel to go in the safe house (kind of ironic in hindsight), was inappropriate, this could have been avoided, so I gather thats why they had Daley on tonight for damage limitation.

It wasn't play fighting it was about control. Hazel demanding he gets in bed and "cuddles" her. Him refusing. Then it escalated. How would Hazel have felt if Daley had pulled her underwear down infront of the cameras? How would BB have viewed that?

It was about power. When Daley reacted the way he did, with whatever demons his internalised in him, she knew then that she'd pushed the wrong person to far. Daleys behaviour frightened me it was that of a potiential abuser. But Hazels has disgusted me to with hers.

Both of them need to look at their behaviour and learn from it then move on. They need to look at those shadow sides to their characters and take responsibility for them. If not they will continue to play these dangerous games of power and that can never end well. I think they both should of left the house. Big Brother needs to accept their part in it too.

[cookiemonster]

^ great post

[GiRTh]

Originally Posted by kate2013

The whole relationship between Daley and Hazel was about control. She wanted to control and dominate him in the house with her insistance for "cuddles" so she could get off on the power of turning him on, and then walking away.

When they got in the safe house it was bound to become intense because this was never about genuine feeling. The tug of war continued, and Daley became more dominant. You could see where this was going. Hazel had already said to Dan that what she was doing with Daley was out of "boredom."

Daley showed his spilt character, Callum already warned him he was crossing aline, it was only when Dexter pointed it out he began to listen instead of take offense.

To have Katie on, then put up and option for Daley and Hazel to go in the safe house (kind of ironic in hindsight), was inappropriate, this could have been avoided, so I gather thats why they had Daley on tonight for damage limitation.

It wasn't play fighting it was about control. Hazel demanding he gets in bed and "cuddles" her. Him refusing. Then it escalated. How would Hazel have felt if Daley had pulled her underwear down infront of the cameras? How would BB have viewed that?

It was about power. When Daley reacted the way he did, with whatever demons his internalised in him, she knew then that she'd pushed the wrong person to far. Daleys behaviour frightened me it was that of a potiential abuser. But Hazels has disgusted me to with hers.

Both of them need to look at their behaviour and learn from it then move on. They need to look at those shadow sides to their characters and take responsibility for them. If not they will continue to play these dangerous games of power and that can never end well. I think they both should of left the house. Big Brother needs to accept their part in it too.

Great post

[Jords]

Jack_ and kate2013 great posts!

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I never said they did and those excuses weren't acceptable either, he was totally responsible for his actions

What I'm saying is that he seems mentally unhinged, that's more of an explanation for his actions than drink, hunger etc

I was asking a question in my post not questioning your post jack, I agree he seems to have a pre existing condition, I really can't think of any other way of explaining his change in mood.

[cookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I was asking a question in my post not questioning your post jack, I agree he seems to have a pre existing condition, I really can't think of any other way of explaining his change in mood.

he may not have a condition as such. i just think he has a lot going on under the surface and where it hasn't been sorted out after all these years (how old is he?) there is a lot of anger there and this is how it comes out

[Kizzy]

He explained how he was terrible in group situations, how he finds it hard to maintain friendships, how he had this stunted relationship with his own family members preferring to remain solitary for most of the time... Is this how most 20 somethings describe themselves?...
He should never have gone in there imo

[Marsh.]

The "finish you off" line was where it crossed over.

Hazel clearly meant it sexually, note his confusion when she said it because he didn't mean it sexually. He was being serious and holding her down because he wanted to sleep.

[the truth]

BB have an enormous responsibility for this whole situation

[Kizzy]

No they don't.... daley does 100%
There is nothing that anyone could say to me which would make me believe that he was in control of that situation entirely, and at any point could have changed the outcome if he so wished.
Blaming external forces or hazel is weak and a cop out!

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No they don't.... daley does 100%
There is nothing that anyone could say to me which would make me believe that he was in control of that situation entirely, and at any point could have changed the outcome if he so wished.
Blaming external forces or hazel is weak and a cop out!

very judgemental....if you had sleep deprivation, 24 hour cameras on your every move, then had yourpants pulled down on national tv with a few drinks inside you, how do you know exactly how youd react?

[darkminxi]

Originally Posted by the truth

BB have an enormous responsibility for this whole situation

Totally agree, they wanted drama, they sure as hell got it, regardless of who's lives they potentially *****ed up - all they care about is the ratings.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

very judgemental....if you had sleep deprivation, 24 hour cameras on your every move, then had yourpants pulled down on national tv with a few drinks inside you, how do you know exactly how youd react?

More excuses..... As you said there has been cases of pants being tugged down before whilst there was drink flowing late at night, and surprisingly nobody was threatened with assault....

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

More excuses..... As you said there has been cases of pants being tugged down before whilst there was drink flowing late at night, and surprisingly nobody was threatened with assault....

no denise actually did assult 2 people......you also ignore the fact here hazel actually sexually assaulted daley by pulling his pants down against his will....if it happened to you , youd ring the cops........daley has righly been booted , but he didn't hit her , he did put his hands on her neck and was rightly booted.....she should have been booted too for her role in the whole sorry mess

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by the truth

no denise actually did assult 2 people......you also ignore the fact here hazel actually sexually assaulted daley by pulling his pants down against his will....if it happened to you , youd ring the cops........daley has righly been booted , but he didn't hit her , he did put his hands on her neck and was rightly booted.....she should have been booted too for her role in the whole sorry mess

I just said she did didn't I?
The twin didn't assault denise after though...
and denise wasn't booted but warned, why should hazel be treated any different?

[the truth]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I just said she did didn't I?
The twin didn't assault denise after though...
and denise wasn't booted but warned, why should hazel be treated any different?

denise should have been booted for assaulting 2people, they didnt even warn her for hitting madsen in the face....she got away with it simple because shes a woman and hes a man.....if hed hit her even gently and If hed pulled the girls pants down, he would still be in prison....double standards
Ill now be called sexist simple for pointing out these double standards, which is in itself sexist

[south12345]

Originally Posted by kate2013

The whole relationship between Daley and Hazel was about control. She wanted to control and dominate him in the house with her insistance for "cuddles" so she could get off on the power of turning him on, and then walking away.

When they got in the safe house it was bound to become intense because this was never about genuine feeling. The tug of war continued, and Daley became more dominant. You could see where this was going. Hazel had already said to Dan that what she was doing with Daley was out of "boredom."

Daley showed his spilt character, Callum already warned him he was crossing aline, it was only when Dexter pointed it out he began to listen instead of take offense.

To have Katie on, then put up and option for Daley and Hazel to go in the safe house (kind of ironic in hindsight), was inappropriate, this could have been avoided, so I gather thats why they had Daley on tonight for damage limitation.

It wasn't play fighting it was about control. Hazel demanding he gets in bed and "cuddles" her. Him refusing. Then it escalated. How would Hazel have felt if Daley had pulled her underwear down infront of the cameras? How would BB have viewed that?

It was about power. When Daley reacted the way he did, with whatever demons his internalised in him, she knew then that she'd pushed the wrong person to far. Daleys behaviour frightened me it was that of a potiential abuser. But Hazels has disgusted me to with hers.

Both of them need to look at their behaviour and learn from it then move on. They need to look at those shadow sides to their characters and take responsibility for them. If not they will continue to play these dangerous games of power and that can never end well. I think they both should of left the house. Big Brother needs to accept their part in it too.

Good observation and well written. Im glad to see that you have split the blame 3 ways rather than soley pointing the finger at one individual....

[Inkyfingers]

Hazel said she put her hands around Daley's throat, he did the same to her. He smacked her backside, she hit him in the face with pillows. From what I saw they pretty much did the same to each other. So was Daley ejected for what he said rather than what he did? I'm a bit confused.

[amu]

Anyone can snap if they are too long with Hazel it seems.